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The gentle art of boxing
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We hear of footballers being suspended for a number of matches, others arrested and charged by the police, and their captaincy taken off them, all for allegedly using abusive words.
So what should happen to thugs such as these, should they be banned from ever boxing again?
We hear of footballers being suspended for a number of matches, others arrested and charged by the police, and their captaincy taken off them, all for allegedly using abusive words.
So what should happen to thugs such as these, should they be banned from ever boxing again?
Answers
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Well it isn't Ankou, If you have ever been in and around a gym you will know the of benefits, It gives kids who would otherwise be patrolling the streets kicking lager cans, a purpose.
How many times have you heard someone on the news say
"i don't understand he was a loving husband and father"
Just after he has murdered them?
There is an element of violence in us all, it manifests itself in different ways.
Even the vicar of Emmerdale got violent a few weeks ago ;0)
How many times have you heard someone on the news say
"i don't understand he was a loving husband and father"
Just after he has murdered them?
There is an element of violence in us all, it manifests itself in different ways.
Even the vicar of Emmerdale got violent a few weeks ago ;0)
Mick-Talbot - the idea that all teenage lads have the potential to be violent thugs in the street, and the way out of that is to 'channel' their aggression into boxing is utterly ludicrous.
Why not 'channel' violence out of young people instead of treating it liike a blood supply which must flow somehwere.
Young men are human beings, not pitbulls, so why not simply ecucate them that hurting people is fundamentally wrong, bot that it is ok to hurt people if you call it 'sport'.
And yes, in an ideal world, I would ban soldiers, but that is an entirely difference argument, and tnot at all comparable in this debate. Millions of soldiers serve for thirty years and never shoot a gun at anyone, much less kill someone. Every single boxer starts hitting - and hurting - people from day one.
Why not 'channel' violence out of young people instead of treating it liike a blood supply which must flow somehwere.
Young men are human beings, not pitbulls, so why not simply ecucate them that hurting people is fundamentally wrong, bot that it is ok to hurt people if you call it 'sport'.
And yes, in an ideal world, I would ban soldiers, but that is an entirely difference argument, and tnot at all comparable in this debate. Millions of soldiers serve for thirty years and never shoot a gun at anyone, much less kill someone. Every single boxer starts hitting - and hurting - people from day one.
yes i do paul. mike tyson said of himself that boxing made him crazy. he even referred to himself as a retarded psycopath.
mick, i am all for gyms and suchlike for conditioning, discipline and health and fitness etc. i was even involved with one for several years many years back. but for every kid that makes it, a couple of hundred don't and they take that learned skill to the streets. a lot of the young lads i knew back then are doing time. i'm not saying they wouldn't have anyway, but conversely its hardly an argument for or against.
mick, i am all for gyms and suchlike for conditioning, discipline and health and fitness etc. i was even involved with one for several years many years back. but for every kid that makes it, a couple of hundred don't and they take that learned skill to the streets. a lot of the young lads i knew back then are doing time. i'm not saying they wouldn't have anyway, but conversely its hardly an argument for or against.
My point about teenage lads having their aggression 'channeled' is a favourite argument in the boxing fraternity - you may have nmore success using that instead of reference to serail killers, smoking, and soliders.
No actually, all the arguments fail if you look at them - you could do with coming up with something else.
No actually, all the arguments fail if you look at them - you could do with coming up with something else.
There is no need to come up with something else though Andy, boxing is a sport which attracts massive audiences, droves of young people who want to take part in it and is generally not a problem for most people. It offends your rather delicate sensibilities that some people are happy to hurt one another in the name of sport but this has gone on for centuries and will continue for centuries more because human nature is by definition competative and combative, so really the problem is yours and not those in favour of boxing.
Ankou- with reference to me saying things I don't personally like should not be banned- no they shouldn't simply for that reason- but that does not extend to things like bull fighting as I also said you might notice that anything cruel involving non sentient animals clearly isn't in the same ballpark because those animals have no choice, so just for the record I'm very happy dog fighting, badger baiting and hopefully soon bull fighting is at an end. There is a difference between cruelty to animals as entertainment and two fully grown consenting men engaging in a sport.
Ankou- with reference to me saying things I don't personally like should not be banned- no they shouldn't simply for that reason- but that does not extend to things like bull fighting as I also said you might notice that anything cruel involving non sentient animals clearly isn't in the same ballpark because those animals have no choice, so just for the record I'm very happy dog fighting, badger baiting and hopefully soon bull fighting is at an end. There is a difference between cruelty to animals as entertainment and two fully grown consenting men engaging in a sport.
Nox - if thinking that people hurting each other for entertainment is wrong - and that is the inescapable fact of what boxing is, regardless of how often we dance around the peripheral issues, means that I have 'rather delicate sensibilities', then I am proud to have them.
What does this say about your sensibilities, that you think it's acceptable?
What does this say about your sensibilities, that you think it's acceptable?
Nox - the logic that something has gone on for a long time, and is therefore acceptable, is simply not valid.
Somewhere in the world, as I type this, a man will be killing another man, and then eatring his flesh. This has gone on since the Stone Age, therefore, according to your logic, it is perfectly acceptable.
It would be nice to think that as a civilised and sophisticated society, we have left behind some of the barberous practices of our ancesters - we no longer pit people against each other in arenas to fight with weapons, we no longer bait bears, or allow dog fights. All these things are a matter of hisotry, but society feels they are no longer acceptable.
Pandering to base instincts simply because people have them, and there is money to be made, is not an acceptable reason for boxing - any more than it would be for gladiatorial combat, or indeed dog or cock fighting.
Dogs and cockrels follow their instincts, so what's the problem in people being entertainied by them doing so, in organised contests? That is the logic you are using - it's wrong, dogs, cockrels, men, violence for entertainment is barbaric.
Somewhere in the world, as I type this, a man will be killing another man, and then eatring his flesh. This has gone on since the Stone Age, therefore, according to your logic, it is perfectly acceptable.
It would be nice to think that as a civilised and sophisticated society, we have left behind some of the barberous practices of our ancesters - we no longer pit people against each other in arenas to fight with weapons, we no longer bait bears, or allow dog fights. All these things are a matter of hisotry, but society feels they are no longer acceptable.
Pandering to base instincts simply because people have them, and there is money to be made, is not an acceptable reason for boxing - any more than it would be for gladiatorial combat, or indeed dog or cock fighting.
Dogs and cockrels follow their instincts, so what's the problem in people being entertainied by them doing so, in organised contests? That is the logic you are using - it's wrong, dogs, cockrels, men, violence for entertainment is barbaric.
Mick-Talbot - you are getting further and further away from the basis of this debate.
Assuming we take the OP's question as the debate , everyone is off the mark.
I suggest you read the OP post again and actually have a think about what he meant.
It has nothing to do with boxing or football.
It is about why a white man should have his captaincy taken off him for 'allegedly' using racism as a tool to degrade a black man.
AOG uses the word 'abusive' rather than racists ..... (I wonder why?)
he then points us in the direction of two black men brawling at a boxing match.
Nice smoke screen AOG.
Assuming we take the OP's question as the debate , everyone is off the mark.
I suggest you read the OP post again and actually have a think about what he meant.
It has nothing to do with boxing or football.
It is about why a white man should have his captaincy taken off him for 'allegedly' using racism as a tool to degrade a black man.
AOG uses the word 'abusive' rather than racists ..... (I wonder why?)
he then points us in the direction of two black men brawling at a boxing match.
Nice smoke screen AOG.
Sorry Mick-Talbot, I am confused.
You refer to 'OP' - (do you mean AOG?) and the original post.
I see no smokescreen at all in the Question - whcih refers to the behvaiour of footballers who have allegedly been racist / abusive, and the ponders the potential outcome of a brawl involving boxers - colour of skin not an issue as far as I can see.
But yes, we are straying away from the Question - but can you further explain your last post please? Thanks.
You refer to 'OP' - (do you mean AOG?) and the original post.
I see no smokescreen at all in the Question - whcih refers to the behvaiour of footballers who have allegedly been racist / abusive, and the ponders the potential outcome of a brawl involving boxers - colour of skin not an issue as far as I can see.
But yes, we are straying away from the Question - but can you further explain your last post please? Thanks.
Ankou - fair do's, you obviously know more about Tyson than I do so I won't argue, but I wouldn't say that's the norm.
Andy - I think you're putting boxing as entertainment before boxing as a sport and I think for most people that's not the case, and, in the case where it is entertainment, who is the most in the wrong, the boxer or the spectator?
Andy - I think you're putting boxing as entertainment before boxing as a sport and I think for most people that's not the case, and, in the case where it is entertainment, who is the most in the wrong, the boxer or the spectator?
Paul - an interesting point.
Where does sport stop and entertainment start - if indeed there is a split, which I trhink inlikely.
To my mind, trhe idea of people hurting each other for money, and for the paid entertainment of others is fundamentally wrong, so I guess my answer would be that the boxer and the viewer are both wrong, one for pandering to an unpleasant urge in the other, and the other for paying to have his urge indulged, perpetuating the situation.
Where does sport stop and entertainment start - if indeed there is a split, which I trhink inlikely.
To my mind, trhe idea of people hurting each other for money, and for the paid entertainment of others is fundamentally wrong, so I guess my answer would be that the boxer and the viewer are both wrong, one for pandering to an unpleasant urge in the other, and the other for paying to have his urge indulged, perpetuating the situation.
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