Somalia and David Cameron

[ironmonger]

I disagree with David Cameron getting us involved with Somalia. Lets hope it doesn't finish up like Iran and Afghanistan. He should do more about the imigration problem we have where they seem to be letting people in without any proper checks. Perhaps he should bring our troops home to help out at the Ports and airfields. It wouldn't cost the Goverment anything as they are
already being paid.

[ironmonger]

I should have said Iraq not Iran

[NOX]

Somalia needs help, it's in no-one interests including ours to allow them to fail any more than they already are. It's a dire situation in Somalia, and I am always against intervening in what is essentially a internal matter for a foreign country but occasionally for the good of the people you have to. I think, rarely for me, this is one situaiton where I think our intervention might be justified.

[bednobs]

somalia and david cameron - two subject you never want to see in chatterback (unless it's a chat about how punchable his face is)

[NOX]

with a bit of luck he might get 'napped by some pirates;-)

[ironmonger]

NOX. The civil war in Somaia has been going on for 21 years why should it suddenly become our problem

[sasskins]

Just lol @ bednobs

[NOX]

I believe it has always been our problem ironmonger, just as I believe that we should be involved in any situation where we can help alleviate suffering. To be honest I don't give a toss about financial or political motivations ( we should have helped in Rwanda as well when the genocides were being committed there), my only interest in this is on a purely humanitarian basis.

[sasskins]

Sorry ironmonger if I haven't regarded your point seriously.
I have an ocean of compassion for the Somalians, as do many others on AB I'm sure, but where do we stop?

[bednobs]

i am not anti tory by the way; i think all three main leaders have exceedingly punchable faces

[sasskins]

But in particular DC and Hague.

[Zeuhl]

<<The civil war in Somaia has been going on for 21 years why should it suddenly become our problem>>

Yes. Why might we have some responsibility for the state of Somalia?

wikipedia:

In the late nineteenth century, the British and Italians gained control of parts of the coast, and established British Somaliland and Italian Somaliland In the interior, Muhammad Abdullah Hassan's Dervish State successfully repulsed the British Empire four times and forced it to retreat to the coastal region, but the Dervishes were finally defeated in 1920 by British airpower. Italy acquired full control of their parts of the region in 1927. This occupation lasted until 1941, when it was replaced by a British military administration. Northern Somalia would remain a protectorate, while southern Somalia became a trusteeship. In 1960, the two regions were united to form an independent Somali Republic under a civilian government. In 1991, Barre's government collapsed as the Somali Civil War broke out.

Ans so the seeds were sown by colonial administrators for inevitable melt down.

Just as in Iraq/Kuwait and large parts of africa

[NOX]

I can actually deal with David Cameron- he wasn't blatenly dishonest- he was a Tory, you knew he was going to stuff the country over, backhand his mates, jobs for the boys and generally be a ....... (rhymes with brick) but Nick Clegg, Nick Clegg who at the very least sold his soul to the Devil and utterly let down everyone who ever voted Lib Dem, there is no-one I think on the whole planet I have as little respect for as him- he's the most punchable one of all. William Hague just looks like a giant baby- that's punishment enough.

[sasskins]

Get real zeuhl - you can't blame colonialism for everything.
India benefitted from colonialism (railways, buildings, infrastructure etc), but not all countries do, or can, or want to.

[sandyRoe]

Didn't the workers of the North West, Lancashire and around there, benefit from colonialism in India too?

[Zeuhl]

<<you can't blame colonialism for everything. >>

Who said you can - not me.

But I think forging a country by drawing lines on a map that throw together peoples with profound differences: cultural, religious, language etc as we did in Somaliland, Iraq etc is a serious contended for working out why a country has been involved in a north/south civil war for 21 years!

Don't you?

[ladybirder]

>>throw together peoples with profound differences: cultural, religious, language etc<<
Like what's happened here:-)

[sasskins]

Zeuhl - I can feel you're very passionate on this subject, and in no way do I want to diminish that. I agree with you about the drawing of lines. Even in this 'civilised' country the lines are forever moving. But the truth is we cannot help all the countries that need help, no matter how much we want to.
People in this country are dying though lack of money and debt - don't ask for proof please - we know it. So, I would like us to keep our noses out of this one.

[jake-the-peg]

India benefitted from colonialism? - I think you might find a lot of Indians who rather disagree with that sentiment - they weren't exactly a backward civilisation when we started overrunning the place with our troops you know!

But there's a lot of self interest in dealing with Somalia - if you haven't noticed there's a rather major piracy problem there that's affecting us and other western nations rather badly and groups like alqeada can do as they like there.

That doesn't mean we should get drawn into a land conflict there - there are other options

I'm sure Somalia's president would love a major western army securing his country but he's not going to get it.

He's more likely to get training and armaments possibly some air support from the Americans.

He probably knows this - you ask for what you want and settle for what you can get

[Zeuhl]

L O L ladybirder

I think the amount of time allowed for adjustment and assimilation is inversely proportionate to the amount of grief that will ensue.

Rows over immigration and Scotland pale into insignificance compared with any notion such as that at midnight tonight we are no longer UK but part of Europa with all decisions made in Brussels by people we don't know or trust.

I wonder if the civil servants (British, French, Italian etc) who drew lines on maps and said 'let's call this one Iraq/Somalia/whatever' had any idea of the practical issues that would arise.

[bednobs]

hmm, i'd still go for cameron as the most punchable smug one. except your fist would probably slip off as he's a bit greasy and sweaty too