Road rules3 mins ago
"High" Petrol Prices in the US..
Average prices now $3.61 for a US gallon, that's about 95 cents a litre which is about 60p! Boo bloody hoo! How is that expensive?
http://news.sky.com/h...news/article/16176723
http://news.sky.com/h...news/article/16176723
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http://uk.finance.yah...anceuk-978605645.html
In some countries it's less than 10p a litre. The cheapest country is less than 3p a litre!
In some countries it's less than 10p a litre. The cheapest country is less than 3p a litre!
Try the differences in excise duties and VAT - we even pay VAT on the excise duty....that is cruel......the market is truly international and say if a price delta of the raw material, crude, or finished products then develop, you very quickly get arbritage setting in as to the trading markets, ready to take advantage of the opportunity, with the corresponding physical cargo movements then setting in...
The point is, I guess, that here in the U.S. we are exporting a lot of oil derived products, including gasoline (your petrol) to Asia (read China) Brazil (go figure) and other countries, since they are willing to pay a premium price for the products. In fact petroeum products are now our number 1 export. This, then reduces the gallonage available for sale here and drives up the price. We pay about 25 to 30% of the total cost in fuel taxes, both State and Federal. The funds are supposed to be used for road building and maintenance, but we know how politicians work on both sides of the Atlantic, don't we?
Clanad, were you not exporting oil products before? Britain used to, in recent memory, but it didn't have any noticeable effect on the prices here, which were mostly affected by world demand and various troubles around the world. Troubles around the world can lead to great shortages, such that a country might impose a universal 50 mph speed limit and other measures, let alone simply forcing the price up.
The basic price of refined gasoline in the West is almost the same everywhere, but when the tax is low and the pump price therefore low, an increase in the basic price is a far greater percentage of the pump price, and so far more noticeable, than when taxes, and pump prices , are very high. No wonder Americans such a fuss about it. (They can't do anything much about it, but that doesn't stop vote- hungry politicians claiming they can)
Americans pay 60p a litre. We pay 149p a litre.
The basic price of refined gasoline in the West is almost the same everywhere, but when the tax is low and the pump price therefore low, an increase in the basic price is a far greater percentage of the pump price, and so far more noticeable, than when taxes, and pump prices , are very high. No wonder Americans such a fuss about it. (They can't do anything much about it, but that doesn't stop vote- hungry politicians claiming they can)
Americans pay 60p a litre. We pay 149p a litre.
Fred, you're right, the U.S. has always exported some petroleum products, but jus t 2 years agon those were listed as 35th for items exported, whereas, this year (2012) they are nmuber 1. Several reasons for this... first, about 2 years ago an immense new field was located in the State of North Dakota that contains more reserves than all of Saudi Arabia, so, that oil is just now coming on line... secondly, the demand for gasoline has been down for some time (due to the seasonal demand as well as continually increasing price) so there has bee an actual surplus of crude oil. Thirdly, we've been importing, for about the last 5 years, considerable crude oil from the tar sands of western Canada, again increasing our surplus. Hence, the oil companies can pick and choose to whom the sell they're product. China has a huge demand, especailly for diesel fuels, so the companies readily sell to them.
Yet and still, the Chinese have bought a tremendous amount of our national debt (thank you Mr. President) the interest on which is in excess of several billions of dollars a month. So... here we are selling products to the Chinese for which they're paying us in our dollars with which we pay them as interest on our debt... unique concept...
Yet and still, the Chinese have bought a tremendous amount of our national debt (thank you Mr. President) the interest on which is in excess of several billions of dollars a month. So... here we are selling products to the Chinese for which they're paying us in our dollars with which we pay them as interest on our debt... unique concept...
Clanad:
In case you are unaware of the point of d9fic7's post, Brits are currently paying an average of around 136p per litre for petrol (= your 'gas'). That's about 2¼ times what you're paying. (i.e. we're paying about $8.10 per US gallon).
That's why we regard news of $3.61 being regarded as 'expensive' as somewhat laughable!
In case you are unaware of the point of d9fic7's post, Brits are currently paying an average of around 136p per litre for petrol (= your 'gas'). That's about 2¼ times what you're paying. (i.e. we're paying about $8.10 per US gallon).
That's why we regard news of $3.61 being regarded as 'expensive' as somewhat laughable!
Here, Chris, is one paragraph from an article in today's 'The Telegraph' by a reporter named Waldrop...
"Fuel is heavily taxed, with levies accounting for the majority of the cost of petrol. Successive governments have applied above-inflation rises to fuel duty.
The average price for a litre of unleaded petrol on British forecourts is 123.26p. Of this, 57.19p is fuel tax, 18.36p is VAT, while the actual cost of the fuel is only 47.71p.
In the case of fuel, the taxman takes a double cut because VAT is applied to the cost of the petrol inclusive of fuel tax. Essentially, you have to pay tax on the tax you pay to buy your fuel."
So, it seems the ongoing difference in world-view between most Americans and most Brits still appears to be one of semi-socialist government.
Understand, I'm not criticizing Britain, however, the extremely high prices on petrol (and other consumer items, I suspect) is due almost entirely to the high tax rates the U.K. is willing to pay... most of which goes for nearly cradle-to-grave care from the government.
I've stated before, most (at least up 'til now) Americans would rather have more control... much more.. over their own lives. We had a discussion about Nationalized Heath Care, and I often see, on many threads here, people stating they think our health care system is terrible, yet, as I've pointed out, no one goes without health care and we have many Canadians who would rather come to our country for their health care than wait in month long (or longer) lines for dubious care... so much so, that Canada is in the midst of reworking their equivalent to your NHS. And... that's only one example of the 'nanny-ism' of allowing ones fate to be administered by bureaucrats... in my opinion.
Our next Presidential election in Novemeber will center on this very concept...
So, where does all that tax reveue from 'gas' go? One of my favorite programs from BBC America is, of course, 'Top Gear'... whenever they're doing a program based in England, the roads don't appear to be superior to ours, and being such a small country in comparison to ours, why would it take that much tax derived income to maintain them? It must be going elsewhere, no?
"Fuel is heavily taxed, with levies accounting for the majority of the cost of petrol. Successive governments have applied above-inflation rises to fuel duty.
The average price for a litre of unleaded petrol on British forecourts is 123.26p. Of this, 57.19p is fuel tax, 18.36p is VAT, while the actual cost of the fuel is only 47.71p.
In the case of fuel, the taxman takes a double cut because VAT is applied to the cost of the petrol inclusive of fuel tax. Essentially, you have to pay tax on the tax you pay to buy your fuel."
So, it seems the ongoing difference in world-view between most Americans and most Brits still appears to be one of semi-socialist government.
Understand, I'm not criticizing Britain, however, the extremely high prices on petrol (and other consumer items, I suspect) is due almost entirely to the high tax rates the U.K. is willing to pay... most of which goes for nearly cradle-to-grave care from the government.
I've stated before, most (at least up 'til now) Americans would rather have more control... much more.. over their own lives. We had a discussion about Nationalized Heath Care, and I often see, on many threads here, people stating they think our health care system is terrible, yet, as I've pointed out, no one goes without health care and we have many Canadians who would rather come to our country for their health care than wait in month long (or longer) lines for dubious care... so much so, that Canada is in the midst of reworking their equivalent to your NHS. And... that's only one example of the 'nanny-ism' of allowing ones fate to be administered by bureaucrats... in my opinion.
Our next Presidential election in Novemeber will center on this very concept...
So, where does all that tax reveue from 'gas' go? One of my favorite programs from BBC America is, of course, 'Top Gear'... whenever they're doing a program based in England, the roads don't appear to be superior to ours, and being such a small country in comparison to ours, why would it take that much tax derived income to maintain them? It must be going elsewhere, no?
Clanad, nobody claims that vehicle revenues go to roads; historically the annual 'road fund licence', the annual fee for keeping a car,was intended to, but it is now part of the general revenues'.
Petrol has always been expensive here. At the outset, cars were for prosperous people and the vehicles and the fuel could be taxed without particular complaint. Later, when cars were in general use, the government wasn't minded to abandon a source of revenue and kept the taxes.
Further, we had no oil production, unlike the US. It was desirable to restrict consumption. The result was 'European' cars, much different from the big engined, large, cars of the US.
Taxes generally?Tax burden as percentage of GDP: UK 34 USA 24 [OECD]
The US spent 15 per cent of GDP on healthcare. Of that about half was government expenditure, from taxation (and that provided for about one third of the population) We spent 8.5 per cent, from taxation, and covered 100 per cent of the population with it. So our extra 10 per cent tax burden seems largely accounted for by our population getting healthcare which the US citizenry has to pay for apart from taxation, whether by insurance or not.
As you suppose, the big difference is European governments provide what we regard as essential e.g healthcare, education of children, as of right, to our people. As with education in the UK, there is no requirement to take up what the state provides as healthcare but the service is there for all.
It may well be that the US is becoming, or is set to become, what you see as 'socialist' . But it has been getting more socialist over decades hasn't it ? When was there nothing which could be termed socialist in US government action with regard to its own people? The trick is not to call it socialist or liberal.
Petrol has always been expensive here. At the outset, cars were for prosperous people and the vehicles and the fuel could be taxed without particular complaint. Later, when cars were in general use, the government wasn't minded to abandon a source of revenue and kept the taxes.
Further, we had no oil production, unlike the US. It was desirable to restrict consumption. The result was 'European' cars, much different from the big engined, large, cars of the US.
Taxes generally?Tax burden as percentage of GDP: UK 34 USA 24 [OECD]
The US spent 15 per cent of GDP on healthcare. Of that about half was government expenditure, from taxation (and that provided for about one third of the population) We spent 8.5 per cent, from taxation, and covered 100 per cent of the population with it. So our extra 10 per cent tax burden seems largely accounted for by our population getting healthcare which the US citizenry has to pay for apart from taxation, whether by insurance or not.
As you suppose, the big difference is European governments provide what we regard as essential e.g healthcare, education of children, as of right, to our people. As with education in the UK, there is no requirement to take up what the state provides as healthcare but the service is there for all.
It may well be that the US is becoming, or is set to become, what you see as 'socialist' . But it has been getting more socialist over decades hasn't it ? When was there nothing which could be termed socialist in US government action with regard to its own people? The trick is not to call it socialist or liberal.
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