Do you think Sol Campbell is right?

[sp1814]

He's said that black fans should avoid the Euro 2012 games in Poland and the Ukraine because of rampant racism:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

Panorama spent a month filming at matches in both the joint host nations and witnessed Nazi salutes from the terraces, black players being taunted with monkey chants, rampant anti-Semitism and a vicious assault on a group of Asian students.

Now...this may be the case, but I remember before the World Cup in South Africa, certain commentators were predicting mass muggings of football fans - and the worst thing that happened were those damn vuvuzelas being blown through every game.

Would racist football 'supporters' put you off travelling to watch your national team play?

[sp1814]

tambourine

You'd have to be spectacularly thick to get the two confused.

One is a fist made by black people, the other is a palm down salute, made by holding the arm perpendicular to the body, then whipping forward.

Also, black people tend not to do the Nazi salute...for pretty obvious reasons.

[tonyav]

I remember that salute sp1814, Munich 1972 I believe.

[sp1814]

Yes, and the other one was also in Munich, but in 1942!

[ludwig]

Mexico 68, not Munich 72

[ELVIS68]

If it happened over here there would be uproar and games played behind closed doors, rightly so too.

This has been going on for years over there and feck all gets done about it

[boxtops]

The Ukraine TV shots would make me think twice about going - and only 3000 official England supporter tickets have been sold, anyway.

[sp1814]

ELVIS68

Just goes to show how far advanced the UK is compared with some of its European counterparts.

[ludwig]

I think if people want to support their country they'd do better staying at home and supporting the English pub trade by watching it down the local over a few pints. That's everyone, not just black fans.

Judging by the abysmal showing at the last world cup, the presence of the travelling fanbase doesn't do alot to lift England's performances anyway.

[Eve]

I was totally shocked watching it, it disgusted me. I'm not a football fan so not something I'd ever thing of going to anyway but regardless and not even being someone who would be targetted, I wouldn't go anywhere near an event like that where racism is so prevelent and there is a high chance of abuse and violence with nothing being done about it.

It worried me at the end when they made the point that it would be the home authorities with the responsibility of safety and security at the event for matchgoers, hardly seems sensible in the circumstances.

[ichkeria]

My view would be that while Sol Campbell is entitled to his opinion, it's a shame that an otherwise excellent, and largely fair, programme, was overshadowed somewhat by his dramatic advice by him to people not to travel. Sol's a passionate guy rightly shocked by what he saw as who wouldn't be, but it was almost as if the BBC were looking for a sound bite and they got one.

Anyone who's seen the Ross Kemp gangs programmes will not be surprised by the scenes in Cracow. As far as Ukraine is concerned, one thing I would say is that league football matches there are very different even to International games. There, the league is dominated by two teams, every single game is televised live and games are consequently given a wide berth by the general population, with very few exceptions. Only the fanatics, sporting and political, attend for the most part. Similarly policing there is very different: emphasis is on crowd management on a large scale, rather than the micro-management of individual incidents, and police tend to be very distant from the populace.
.
At Euro 2012 i would be amazed if there were any problems of the type shown in that programme. It'll just be a completely different atmosphere. Above all I hope no England fan of black or Asian origin will be put off going: that would be a shame.

[rockyracoon]

I watched the last knockings of this programme as OH had it on, it made me feel sick when those cowards jumped on the Asian fans, why anyone would want to travel there for football is beyond me. I hope all the fans going stay safe.

[rockyracoon]

Ichkeria, I hope you are right.

[Ellipsis]

UEFA's opinion seems to be "These countries have a racism problem. Let's award them the European Championships, put them in the spotlight, and that may help to address it."

It seems to me that this attitude makes a hostage to fortune of the visiting fans. I would prefer the attitude to have been "These countries have a racism problem. Let's not award them the European Championships until they address it."

[ichkeria]

"I would prefer the attitude to have been "These countries have a racism problem. Let's not award them the European Championships until they address it."

Ideally yes, however as I recall the country which lost out to Ukraine and Poland to host Euro 2012 was ... Italy, host nation to easily the worst football violence I've ever seen. And where a certain Paolo di Canio was known to deliver Nazi salutes to his own fans. By the way the concern then, somewhat ironically, was alleged corruption in Italian football.

[d9f1c7]

Tell you what SP, I watched the program last night and I have to change my mind on this, Sol Campbell is correct, I had completely underestimated the extent of the problem. The authorities are in denial, as are the police, the thugs in question even beat up a bunch of Asians supporting their own team. Totally out of control I'd not recommend visiting this place until they get civilised. Even Platini is in denial, what are UEFA thinking?

[sp1814]

Very dodgy situation.

It's like - if minority fans stay away, the racists have won, and if they DO turn up, they're putting themselves in mortal danger.

I think watching the games with your mates and denying the Ukranian economy with our hard earned cash is perhaps the best option.

[d9f1c7]

yes I agree SP, the trouble is, it seems endemic and almost with tacit approval from the Police. It's not just a few nutters.

[Eve]

Another worry of mine is that violence attracts violence in some circumstances and while some people will stay away due to their concern it then leaves more opportunity for those just looking for trouble to go and cause havoc like the recent protests that seem to attract idiots just out to cause trouble and the riots.

I feel sorry for people who genuinely just want to go and enjoy a football match peacefully, especially with kids. Having been in a couple of situations involving football fans kicking off (on a tram being attacked and then diverted after threats to kill were made, the Rangers fiasco in Manchester) and the riots here kicking off I wouldn't go anywhere near where there is potential trouble of that kind, let alone with a child.

[tamborine]

SP, To salute is to show respect & friendship, not power over others.

Surely the black players want their supporters there & could pay for protection of them out of their huge salaries.