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What is an Immigrant ?
We have 10% of so called immigrants but what is an immigrant ?
And what is the true value of these percentages that are published ?
I have many neighbours who we would consider immigrants but who were born here and in many cases so were their parents and even grandparents. My Jamaican neighbour is a great grandfather and all his grand children were born here and are living here.
In my 6 year grand daughter's class only 5 are white English but I believe
all the others were born here and are I assume by definition English.
And what is the true value of these percentages that are published ?
I have many neighbours who we would consider immigrants but who were born here and in many cases so were their parents and even grandparents. My Jamaican neighbour is a great grandfather and all his grand children were born here and are living here.
In my 6 year grand daughter's class only 5 are white English but I believe
all the others were born here and are I assume by definition English.
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My father was born in the US and came here when 5 - I guess he's an immigrant - the only way you could tell was to check his birth certificate.
Of course if Scotland goes for independance we'll have an immigration boom
All the scots living in England will at a stroke suddenly become immigrants.
Silly really
Of course if Scotland goes for independance we'll have an immigration boom
All the scots living in England will at a stroke suddenly become immigrants.
Silly really
Interestingly, many of the Asian youths I taught would identify themselves as Indian or pakistani for 'nationality' questions, even though born in the UK and holders of full citizenship.
This is a complex issue.
My great- grandparents gave a very clear message: look, think, dress, act English and where possible marry an englishman (you get an english surname then). It was a burning desire to integrate that drove them.
It seems the opposite is driving young people round here at the present time.
This is a complex issue.
My great- grandparents gave a very clear message: look, think, dress, act English and where possible marry an englishman (you get an english surname then). It was a burning desire to integrate that drove them.
It seems the opposite is driving young people round here at the present time.
Mosaic
Yup - now all the kids want to be American!
They eat at McDonalds, KFC and Burger King.
They watch films starring Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Jonny Depp and Kristen Stewart
They laugh at The Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men
They wear Jeans by Levis, t-shirts by The Gap and trainers by Nike
They listen to music by Jay-Z, Katy Perry and Lady Gaga
They play games on their X-Boxes and download apps to their iPhones.
They quench their thirst with Pepsi and...well...you get my point.
Yup - now all the kids want to be American!
They eat at McDonalds, KFC and Burger King.
They watch films starring Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Jonny Depp and Kristen Stewart
They laugh at The Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men
They wear Jeans by Levis, t-shirts by The Gap and trainers by Nike
They listen to music by Jay-Z, Katy Perry and Lady Gaga
They play games on their X-Boxes and download apps to their iPhones.
They quench their thirst with Pepsi and...well...you get my point.
Perhaps they regard themselves as hyphenated, but don't bother with the hyphen? Americans hang on to ancestry to a extreme degree. "Irish-Americans" remain so for many generations down from when there ancestors got a ship from Liverpool or Cobh. "African-American" maybe only a recent, correct term for what was a race sensitive one, but is one taken up by people whose ancestors came from Africa a very long time ago ,in terms of the history of the US.
I have Irish ancestors, and regarded myself as Irish rather than English or British because I identified more with Irish ways of talking, thinking, and behaving, than I did with the English ones. I was more like the Irish I knew. "That's Irish" of some statement always made perfect and immediate sense to me, who rarely, if ever, saw anything odd in it and had to think why anyone would think it so.
These people who identify themselves as Pakistani may be doing no more than I did (I still don't feel English). They identify more with the culture and ways of their ancestry than they do with English or 'British' ways, though in law they are British. We don't seem to worry about people who regard themselves as Scots or Welsh thinking of themselves as primarily of those countries but the 'cricket test' is applied to those from the sub-continent.
I have Irish ancestors, and regarded myself as Irish rather than English or British because I identified more with Irish ways of talking, thinking, and behaving, than I did with the English ones. I was more like the Irish I knew. "That's Irish" of some statement always made perfect and immediate sense to me, who rarely, if ever, saw anything odd in it and had to think why anyone would think it so.
These people who identify themselves as Pakistani may be doing no more than I did (I still don't feel English). They identify more with the culture and ways of their ancestry than they do with English or 'British' ways, though in law they are British. We don't seem to worry about people who regard themselves as Scots or Welsh thinking of themselves as primarily of those countries but the 'cricket test' is applied to those from the sub-continent.
My kids hold English and Irish passports, I've friends who are French and their children have spent all their lives here.
I think it's difficult for us to understand the feelings of such people I suspect that the problem is that we are asking them to make an artificial choice.
I suspect that for some people asking them to chose between countries is like asking some of us to choose between their children.
They probably don't see why they should have to
I think it's difficult for us to understand the feelings of such people I suspect that the problem is that we are asking them to make an artificial choice.
I suspect that for some people asking them to chose between countries is like asking some of us to choose between their children.
They probably don't see why they should have to
Fred, I understand where you're coming from and the only factor that has skewed what would in other times be 'your background', is islamic fundamentalism. I know this makes me sound like a redneck, but the effect of islamic fundamentalism in the northern industrial towns is a powerful brake on integration.
Some mosques and madrassas preach race hate and gender oppression is normalised - social ostracism and even violence are used to make people comply, and attempts at breaking the cycle are immediately branded racist.
Some mosques and madrassas preach race hate and gender oppression is normalised - social ostracism and even violence are used to make people comply, and attempts at breaking the cycle are immediately branded racist.
cont.
The word English narrows it down to one of 40 million whilst Irish its one of 3 million and to say you support your local football club is even better.
Which raises an interesting point. Who do you feel closest to, the Pakistani in your darts team or your English neighbour who prefers ballet.
I suppose we hang on to an identity in which we feel most comfortable.
The word English narrows it down to one of 40 million whilst Irish its one of 3 million and to say you support your local football club is even better.
Which raises an interesting point. Who do you feel closest to, the Pakistani in your darts team or your English neighbour who prefers ballet.
I suppose we hang on to an identity in which we feel most comfortable.
I'm not, I've seen it. It's braindead television.
"I suppose it's the desire to have a definable identity."
Probably. I recently had a bad tempered argument with someone who believed that the UK "doesn't have any culture." I found it impossible to see his point, we're brimming over with the stuff.
Also SP, I think your point about "being American" seems to focus on some quite negative aspects. You just listed stuff . It's not the stuff that matters, but the creative content which appears on/in/around/because of it.
But to go stuff-to-stuff on the issue, here's a list of British games developers who make the actual content for Xbox: http://
There's plenty!
"I suppose it's the desire to have a definable identity."
Probably. I recently had a bad tempered argument with someone who believed that the UK "doesn't have any culture." I found it impossible to see his point, we're brimming over with the stuff.
Also SP, I think your point about "being American" seems to focus on some quite negative aspects. You just listed stuff . It's not the stuff that matters, but the creative content which appears on/in/around/because of it.
But to go stuff-to-stuff on the issue, here's a list of British games developers who make the actual content for Xbox: http://
There's plenty!
Many years ago I was told by some student nurses they were having a 'cultural' night at college but the english students didn't need to do anything as they didn't have a culture... One explosion later and a night spent prepping a teaching session they realised the college was wrong... I provided them with some english cheeses, some scones and eccles cakes to take in to college. They must have argued the case pretty well as my session was adopted as part of the culture and diversity part of the course...
From Oxford Dictionaries.com
immigrant
Pronunciation: /ˈɪmɪgr(ə)nt/
noun
a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country:
How then, can you possibly be an "immigrant" if you were born in the country in which you live? What a load of twaddle. If you were born in the US you're an American, you're not Irish, Scottish or African. To be any of those nationalities you would have to have been born there.
immigrant
Pronunciation: /ˈɪmɪgr(ə)nt/
noun
a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country:
How then, can you possibly be an "immigrant" if you were born in the country in which you live? What a load of twaddle. If you were born in the US you're an American, you're not Irish, Scottish or African. To be any of those nationalities you would have to have been born there.
If you go back far enough we are probably all immigrants (or decended from immigrants). Many of the true "English" people who were born here thousands of years ago were killed by the various foreign invaders.
We were invaded by people like the vikings, the romans and the normans. Many of those invaders killed the local "english" population, and then many of these invaders stayed and married and had children.
So we are partly decended from a mixture of Scandinavian, Italian and French invaders (in fact the Normans who invaded in 1066 were probably decended from vikings - North Men / Normans)
And after the Romans left many people came here from Germany, Denmark, Holland (what we call the Anglo Saxons). In fact the name "England" comes from "Angles Land" (land of the Angles). The Angles were a German tribe that came here.
In fact the "true" English (if there is such a thing) probably moved West as most invaders landed on the East coast, so it is the Welsh who are the true English.
So we who see ourselves as true "Englishmen" are a mixture of French, German, Italian, Danish and Dutch (and a few others thrown in for good measure such as French Huguenots, thousands of whom came here from France).
We were invaded by people like the vikings, the romans and the normans. Many of those invaders killed the local "english" population, and then many of these invaders stayed and married and had children.
So we are partly decended from a mixture of Scandinavian, Italian and French invaders (in fact the Normans who invaded in 1066 were probably decended from vikings - North Men / Normans)
And after the Romans left many people came here from Germany, Denmark, Holland (what we call the Anglo Saxons). In fact the name "England" comes from "Angles Land" (land of the Angles). The Angles were a German tribe that came here.
In fact the "true" English (if there is such a thing) probably moved West as most invaders landed on the East coast, so it is the Welsh who are the true English.
So we who see ourselves as true "Englishmen" are a mixture of French, German, Italian, Danish and Dutch (and a few others thrown in for good measure such as French Huguenots, thousands of whom came here from France).
//How can you be an immigrant if you were born in the country in which you live?//
Well that depends on the nature of the country
A lot of people were born in Ireland prior to 1921 when it was part of Britain and felt imigrants after independance
I'm sure that's similar for many former colonies
The problem with much of this is that people take a very simplistic view of Nationality.
Where is the "Tebbit test" with young Pakistniis who suppotr Pakistan is Cricket but England in football?
Or is that just not allowed?
Of all countries we should understand this best - a English people here feel a conflict between being English and being British?
Personally I don't feel a conflict between being English, British or European but I know that's a step too far for most of you
Well that depends on the nature of the country
A lot of people were born in Ireland prior to 1921 when it was part of Britain and felt imigrants after independance
I'm sure that's similar for many former colonies
The problem with much of this is that people take a very simplistic view of Nationality.
Where is the "Tebbit test" with young Pakistniis who suppotr Pakistan is Cricket but England in football?
Or is that just not allowed?
Of all countries we should understand this best - a English people here feel a conflict between being English and being British?
Personally I don't feel a conflict between being English, British or European but I know that's a step too far for most of you
-- answer removed --
I thought you would understand jno," Why is it an issue? " its not being an immigrant that matters , after all we are all immigrants if you go back into our family history, but it is the cultural differences that have to be catered for our government and society. That is why it is necessary to obtain as much information as possible but unfortunately the results can produce widely different percentages.
I was in hospital recently and a Jehovah Witness was refusing a blood transfusion. So the question 'what is your religion' is important. It is also important to know it for meals e.g Halal and Kosher.
Mind you when I said I was an atheist the nurse wasn't sure which box to tip.
I was in hospital recently and a Jehovah Witness was refusing a blood transfusion. So the question 'what is your religion' is important. It is also important to know it for meals e.g Halal and Kosher.
Mind you when I said I was an atheist the nurse wasn't sure which box to tip.
