PC Harwood 'not guilty'

[sandyRoe]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900484

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[sp1814]

Hmm...you know what? We were just talking about this at work. If you shoved someone in an argument in a pub and they stumbled to the floor and later had a heart attack, would it be fair for you to be convicted of manslaughter?

Its something that you could do a million times to a million different people and 999,999 times the worst outcome would be slightly dusty trousers.

I don't know...if Harwood knew the poor guy had a medical condition and did it anyway, that to me sounds like manslaughter...I kinda see justification in the judgement.

[anotheoldgit]

I'm keeping out of this one in case I offend all those who will continue to say he was guilty.

[Gromit]

It sounds like the right verdict. he admitted his actions were wrong but that does not mean he was guilty of manslaughter. A freak set of cir stances led to Tomlinson dying. Harwood will probably be sacked after his disciplinary hearing.

[chaptazbru]

Why do you think he'll be sacked Gromit ?

[Gromit]

Because in court he admitted his actions were wrong.

// "Now I know all that I know now, and how poorly he was, I am sorry I got it wrong. I should not have hit him with a baton and pushed him."

Asked by Mark Dennis QC, prosecuting, whether he accepted he had gone "over the top" having seen footage of Tomlinson walking away from a line of police trying to clear a pedestrian passageway in London's City district, Harwood agreed. He said: "Watching the video, yes, I probably have." //

I think those words will get him the sack, but I could be wrong.

[LoftyLottie]

I think he should get the sack, personally. 'Baton happy' in my honest opinion. If you use a baton on somebody it should be because they are being aggressive, not because you want them out of the way. I think PC Harwood has got off lightly.

[chaptazbru]

Then, I hope he does indeed get the sack.

[Gromit]

Some interesting new details have emerged after the verdict.

// Ten allegations had been made against the officer during his career before his encounter with Mr Tomlinson, who later died.

In 2005 Harwood was hauled up by his bosses after he was seen to knee a suspect in the kidneys as he lay on the ground.

Again in 2008 he was at the centre of allegations of 'heavy handed' policing after he twisted the handcuffs of a manacled motorist he had pulled over for an apparent speeding offence.

Jurors did not hear evidence of the two incidents after Mr Justice Fulford ruled it would complicate the hearing and compromise its fairness.

Deborah Glass, deputy chair of the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), said: "The circumstances of Pc Harwood's return to the MPS (Metropolitan Police Service) in 2004 raised grave concerns about MPS vetting procedures. //

http://www.telegraph....ng-Ian-Tomlinson.html

[chaptazbru]

He sounds like an arrogangt bully and probably thought he'd aways get away with it.

[bednobs]

how the hell can you knee someone in the kidneys if they are lying on the ground??

[LoftyLottie]

Unfortunately there are quite a few thugs in the police force and he was obviously one of them. It's always going to happen in any authoritarian force.

He should lose his job for the sake of the general public and as an example to those who bully.

[ludwig]

It looks like he's a bit of a thug, but the verdict seems right.
It will be ridiculous if he manages to avoid the sack this time, but the police have been known to promote their thugs to a job where they think they'll keep out of trouble rather than kicking them out.

[Gromit]

Apparently in court Harwood said one of the other options he had for dealing was Tomlinson was to shoot him. He had a gun.

Someone who had had 10 complaints about violence conduct was sent into a riot with a gun!

[Sqad]

The correct verdict in my opinion.

The expert witnesses disagreed over the significance of the post mortem findings.

It was always my opinion (for what it is worth) after watching the video at least a dozen times that the baton blow could not have ruptured his liver.

I do not know whether his force was excessive, but i do know that the police are on a "hiding to nothing" in the theatre of riots.

[jake-the-peg]

I hate to ruin everybody's opinion of me as a card carrying liberal but I've always thought and said that this didn't look like manslaughter to me.

In my opinion there did not seem to be a great deal of recklessness in the policemans actions and he couldn't have known or expected Tomlinson to have had the medical complications.

I've seen incidents of police behaviour that I think were rather deplorable and if someone had been badly injured or killed from them I'd be at the head of the queue looking for a conviction.

this wasn't one of them

[bazwillrun]

http://news.uk.msn.co...d-previous-complaints

no smoke without fire etc etc etc

[stokemaveric]

i dont know how anyone can say this was not murder...watch the tv evidence...the guy was walking AWAY from the police..WITH HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKETS...when he was shoved to the ground...WITH FORCE...surely this would have brought on shock which would have contributed to a heart attack...would mr tomlinson have had a heart attack if he had not have been shoved to the ground???...that is open to debate..but did he really deserve to be attacked like that as he was of no obvious danger to the police line...squad i normally agree with what you say but believe me i have been in such scenarios not in a police role i admit...but in northern ireland with the armed forces...and mr tomlinson should have been allowed to walk away...

[Sqad]

stoke....I understand you concern here but the medical facts . as far as i can remember are:

The first post mortem indicated that he had coronary artery disease and died of a heart attack.

There were subsequently two further post mortems performed by separate pathologists who came to the conclusion that death was not due to a heart attack but "might" have been due to a ruptured liver as there was blood in the peritoneal cavity.

Watching the video footage, it was difficult to believe that the blows could cause a ruptured liver........and i would agree.

[lcg]

looking at the video, he should be convicted of manslaughter - he could see tomlinson was older, overweight and therefore should/could haverealised logically he had health problems. it should be no different to someone throwing a punch on a friday night and accidentally killing someone. loads of those people have been locked up. harwood is a thug who likes battering others because he is a copper. i've met plenty of them in my time....and as a professional/in a personal capacity. in no way did tomlinson pose a threat, connect or involve himself in the riot in any way - none of the other officers did what harwood did and you could see that others weren't happy with him. the police's problem is that it is full of individual's who like to control others and sometimes the buzz of action (1 bad one sullies the reputation of every other officer someone meets....that's all it takes - as a professional he should have got it right). if i did that in my role as a psych nurse on a wardand a patient died minutes later (and believe you me we have had riots at times!!!) would i expect to walk away from a conviction....probably not. in this situation i think it is clear.

[stokemaveric]

i know you have medical knowledge squad and would not undervalue your opinion,but do you not think that when he landed after the shove that he landed with such force that it might have contributed to the ruptured liver??..it was a very hefty push and mr tomlinson landed very heavily...