21st century Eastbourne

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....ouths-Eastbourne.html

Once a quiet peaceful sea-side town, a town fit to retire to, but it might as well be a sink estate of any modern day city.

Here we see a single man attacked by a group of cowardly savage youngsters, products of today's society.

How can anyone say things were no better 60 years ago?

[Kromovaracun]

I can say things were no better 60 years ago.

[sandyRoe]

The Teddy Boys were a vicious, lawless, lot. NOthing changes.

[sp1814]

One murder does not make a trend.

Also. It's difficult to compare Eastbourne of 1952 with Eastbourne of now. Completely different demographic surely? Wasn't Eastbourne very much a retirement town back then? it has a much younger profile now, surely?

[SeaJayPea]

It's a massive leap to get from one appalling attack to suggesting that the whole town is a modern sink estate.

Hoxever, Eastbourne does have a bit of history where illegal killings are concerned. See Dr John Bodkin Adams. They lay 160 deaths at his hands. He went on trial for one of them in 1957 and was aquitted after suggestions of interference from the government.

This makes an interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodkin_Adams

[cupid04]

I have happy memories of Holidays with my nan and grandad at Eastbourne.
Used to have fun on the trams and trampolines. I used to be a bit scared
of Beachy Head though. because looking through my grandad's binoculars it
felt like you were going to fall if you stood too close to the edge.

[Gromit]

British Seaside towns are dying ( with one or two exceptions ). More people are going abroad for their holidays so the accommodation is filled by benefit claimants. Jobs are seasonal so they have no work and no money. So crime increases.

Obviously things were better 60 years ago when these places were booming after the war. But now they are just depressing sh itholes.

I would bulldoze them into the sea, but there might be an outcry.

[flip_flop]

Gromit is right - In my early teens in the mid 80s I lived in Margate for a couple of years and it always struck me as having a shabby sort of charm.

I was unfortunate enough to return last year for a day for the first time since I left in the 80s, and in the intervening years it has turned into the arse end of the earth.

It it a sh i thole of unimaginable proportions.

[anotheoldgit]

http://news.google.co...AIBAJ&pg=4507,3655180

Yes some of them were a very violent lot back then, but nothing on the scale of today, in fact I can never remember anyone being killed, most used their flick knives to manicure their finger nails or slash cinema seats.

Here we have a typical BBC left-wing approach on knife and gun crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...ld/africa/7502180.stm

/// Prof Sharp said 20 years ago people in Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool would not have found about about knife crimes in London - and vice versa. ///

/// "News took longer to get into the public domain and tended to have different focus," he said. ///

Oh yes in 1988 Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool were in the wilderness and isolated, didn't they have radio, telephones or television back then, or was it because the messenger pigeons tended to congregate in Trafalgar Square instead of delivering their messages?

[jake-the-peg]

When was the last Policeman Shot in the line of duty?

William Gibson Sgt 44 Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary May 1951 Shot
Allan George Baxter PC 33 Kent County Constabulary June 1951 Shot
Duncan Alexander Fraser PC 46 West Yorkshire Police July 1951 Shot
Arthur Gordon Jagger PC 42 West Yorkshire Police July 1951 Shot
John Macleod PC 31 City of Glasgow Police September 1952 Shot
Sidney George Miles PC 42 Metropolitan Police Service November 1952 Shot

http://en.wikipedia.o...d_in_the_line_of_duty

How's the left wing agenda on gun crime looking now?

[Kromovaracun]

"Oh yes in 1988 Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool were in the wilderness and isolated, didn't they have radio, telephones or television back then, or was it because the messenger pigeons tended to congregate in Trafalgar Square instead of delivering their messages? "

Yeah, what would a Professor of Criminal Justice know about this?

If you'd bothered to read what he's arguing rather than making feeble efforts at reductio ad absurdum, you'd realise that he didn't argue Birmingham/Manchester were isolated - he just says that news tended to focus on more local events, and that national coverage wasn't as instant or short term as it is today. He is not merely asserting this - he is basing his claims on the evidence available to him as a member of the research community. This is corroborated by the fact that local newspapers have steadily declined in numbers over the past few decades. Of course, that doesn't account for TV or radio stations, but he is arguing that on average they tended to have a more regional focus in news coverage.

[youngmafbog]

The proble is that the News media continually focus on the bad points of life (probably because that is what the general public seem to like). Hwever if you step back and look at the reality these incidents really are in a minority. Consider alos that the population has also gorwn over the last 60 years so you would expect to see more. We also have cctv everywhere so it is easier to see the problems (that have always been there anyway)

The youth of today are not bad, a small minority are, just like it has always been.

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

Not a very good argument I am afraid, in fact taking the figures from your link, the number of Police killings by gun or knife over the last six decades have been:

1950s......8
1960s......10
1970s......9
1980s......17
1990s......11
2000s......5 to 2007

So it was in the 50s when the least numbers of Policeman were shot or stabbed in the line of duty?

[jake-the-peg]

I think you wshould look again at your data AOG

I would say that it's pretty level with the exception of a peak in the 80s

I certainly don't think it supports your contention that the country has gone to hell in a handbasket.

If anything it demonstrates how bad things were under dear old Maggie!

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

/// I think you wshould look again at your data AOG ///

I am confident that those figures are correct.

But at least it has moved your argument away from the 50s and you are now harking back to times under the Thatcher government.

Is there no limit you will not go to, to create yet another argument to get one away from the the problem in hand?

But to get back to the original problem of some of 'TODAY'S' youth, have a similar check to the one you had on policemen killed in the line of duty, (why you picked those only you knows) and check on the number of shootings and stabbings committed by youngsters since the year 2000.

[Kromovaracun]

"Is there no limit you will not go to, to create yet another argument to get one away from the the problem in hand?"

What are you talking about?

He's comparing your conclusions about violence with the figures on police killings. Figures that you posted. You seem to think there's a steady increase over time (if you don't then it's hard to see how you can maintain things are worse), whereas they're actually all pretty similar except for the 1980s.

Of course, figures for police killed are not nearly enough to make a judgement about society as a whole, but they are useful.

[jake-the-peg]

I don't mean to question the data but rather your interpretation of it

2000-2007 5 is 6.2 pro rata

so lets take out the 80's to clarify things


8,10,9,11,6

that looks like a pretty flat sequence to me!

So - Why 17 during the 80's?

12 of those were actually shot

So rather than your usual narrative of the flood of guncrime on the streets - what we see in terms of Policemen being shot is that there was a big surge in the 80's and a decine since then

In terms of overall violent crime, this peaked a little later and has been sim ilarly declining

http://newsimg.bbc.co...ds_in_crime_466v3.gif

*Nobody is claiming the figures are better than the 50s* (so please stop trying to put words in our mouths)

We are saying that the crime figures are not significantly worse - especially if you look at them per head of population

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

First let me remind you, that it was you who for some reason introduced the Police killing figures for the 50s.

I was only using the site from where you got your statics from to prove to you that it was during the 50s that there were the least amount of such killings.

Still no answer to this request I see.

check on the number of shootings and stabbings committed by youngsters since the year 2000

[ChuckFickens]

It's 9 in the 50's BTW.

William Gibson 22 May 1951 Shot
Allan George Baxter 5 June 1951 Shot
Duncan Alexander Fraser 15 July 1951 Shot
Arthur Gordon Jagger PC 16 July 1951 Shot
John Macleod 4 September 1952 Shot
Sidney George Miles 2 November 1952 Shot
James O'Donnell 13 December 1958 Shot
Raymond Henry Summers 14 December 1958 Stabbed
Raymond William Purdy 13 July 1959 Shot

[ChuckFickens]

Also the figures in that wiki page go up to the end of the 2000's decade, so the amount in all off the 00's was 6. The lowest yet.