Paralympics and State Benefits

[hairygrape]

There has been much anger over the way this Coalition government is treating disabled people regarding state benefits. There are tales of people desperately ill being losing their benefits and being forced back into work. Some seem to have committed suicide along the way.

How exactly does this relate to the Paralympics. Surely, some of those competing in TeamGB must be receiving Incapacity Benefits or Disability Living Allowance due to the profound disabilities they suffer.

Can we expect these people who have committed themselves to the Paralympics receiving letters from the DWP telling them to go and find or job or even attend a medical on the basis that if they can compete, they must be capable of doing some sort of work.

[hairygrape]

joggerjayne, I doubt that the figure will ever come to light. I really can't see even the tabloids trying to find the answer.

Besides, it involves more than just DLA as people on Incapacity Benefit have been told they are fit for work after an ATOS medical. One of the links I provided cite the case of young woman who had her Housing Benefit/ Council Tax Benefit stopped, a decision made by her local authority in conjunction with the DWP

[hairygrape]

bednobs, I don't agree. There is a high proportion of claimants out there who are in receipt of both incapacity Benefit and DLA. The DLA is paid because they meet the eligibility criteria.

ATOS make a decision currently based upon what what the recipient can do rather than what he or she can't. For example, one recipient without arms and in a wheelchair was informed that she could operate a foot-operated sewing machine in a specially adapted local factory and her IB and DLA were stopped at a stroke.

[Quizmonster]

As written above, "Where appeals are concerned...there is a 40% chance that the ATOS decision will be overturned." And for this, we pay them multi-millions!

I haven't got a link - it's not really necessary, if you're good at sums - but one journalist recently wrote that, with a 40% overturn rate, ATOS might almost just as well ask anyone being assessed, "Which hand am I holding a peanut in?"

[emmie]

the system with regards to ATOS is deeply flawed, as one who has been put through an awful experience with them, akin to a sausage factory, shunt you in, and shunt you out. No matter the disability, everyone is being assessed and if you win your case, that is not necessarily the end of the matter. We had some ABers who have been through this and their experiences with this system were as bad if not worse then mine. I have read, though cannot corroborate a number of people have committed suicide rather than be hauled back to the assessment centres. ATOS are earning a small fortune out of this, and the two programmes that were on about a month ago highlighted just how bad the system is.

[factor-fiction]

I am sure there are issues about ATOS's effectiveness but I'm not sure how that important issue relates to the question which was about Paralympic athletes. I know ATOS are sponsoring the Games but I can't see how this all fits in with the original question, nor for that matter can I work out what the original question is getting at.

[factor-fiction]

Can I make it clear that I'm not diagreeing with some of the comments made about ATOS by Quizmaster, em10 etc as I don't have enough knowledge about them or the issue. I'm just saying that in this thread we seem to be conflating two issues

[emmie]

if the athletes are on some benefits which i am sure they are, then assume you think like some others do that if they are fit enough to compete, then they are fit enough for work, but isn't this their work?
There are any number of disabled games, not just the Paralympics.

[emmie]

factor, perhaps it isn't clear what the question is.

[SODIT]

It gets better ATOS who are doing the back to work assessment are being joined by Capita who will be checking out the DLA claims. After a few weeks training these TV licence enforcers will become experts in medical problems or will they ? Media URL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lldrc/Panorama_Disabled_or_Faking_It/
Description:

[SODIT]

Better link here

[factor-fiction]

I agree em10- I can't work out what the question is getting at. I have a feeling that the thread will turn into an anti-ASOS one and that the issue of Capita and TV licences will be brought into it as well. They are both valid topics but I'm not sure of why they in a Paralympics thread

[modeller]

The term fit for work is an emotive term. It doesn't mean they are fit for any work. There are very few people disabled or otherwise who are unable to do anything. However just being fit for some work doesn't mean there are suitable jobs available.

[anotheoldgit]

It is so nice to read a balanced debate on this subject, no insults or suggestion of insensitivity, both of which I experienced when I made a similar comment in an earlier thread regarding a fellow ABer claiming Incapacity Benefits, while working in a charity shop.

Unfortunately I did not know of the ABers's illness before I posted so I later apologised, although the ABer in question accepted my apology it was not good enough for others.

[hairygrape]

OK, as the OP, I'll try and clarify the question.

As has been said above, this Government seems hell bent on getting people back to work unless they are virtually dead on their feet. I'm not debating the per se as the disability rights groups have given credence to this on numerous occasions and are vehemently opposed to the way genuine claimants have been treated. Having said that, everyone knows a malingerer.

The point I was trying to make was that the paralympics have given benefit investigators a raft of "potential" people to investigate on the basis that if they can compete or excel in the paralympics, they could potentially do a days work. Granted, the work would be restrictive, but the DWP might say that there was something they could do if they could compete in the paralympics. This could potentially place them on Jobseekers Allowance rather than the higher paid disability benefits.

This is precisely what has happened to many disability claimants and it could happen to these athletes too.

I wasn't discussing DLA specifically - I was using it to point out just one benefit that would cease if these athletes were found capable of work.

As I said earlier, I think we'll never know how many athletes are in receipt of disability benefits and I'd be the first to admit that there must be many on TeamGB who receive no disability benefits.

[hairygrape]

modeller, the issue of jobs being available is immaterial to this government. They have never considered that this blitz on benefit claimants. Their agenda is to get people off the higher paid disability benefits and put them on Jobseekers Allowance. In doing so, they can force them onto schemes such as getting them to work in Pound Shops in order to continue to receive their benefit - those that refuse have their benefits stopped. Other schemes include graveyard cleaning etc. as well as mandatory attendance with companies such as Working Links, who teach them how to complete a CV, how to present themselves at interviews etc. but cannot provide them with a job.

[EDDIE51]

As has been said DLA is not a means tested benefit , you can be a millionaire and still legally claim it. You can work full time and earn £10,000 a week and still claim it.

[THECORBYLOON]

http://www.parliament...iefing-papers/SN05850
“The Work Capability Assessment (WCA) was introduced in October 2008 to assess entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). The WCA determines whether a person has a “limited capability for work”, and also whether they are capable of engaging in “work-related activity”. This second part of the assessment determines whether an ESA claimant is placed in the “Support Group” or the “Work-Related Activity Group”.
The WCA is based on the principle that a health condition or disability should not automatically be regarded as a barrier to work, and that for such people work can itself have benefits. It has however been controversial from the outset. 60% of those who have undergone an initial assessment on making a claim for ESA so far have been declared “fit for work”, 41% of such decisions have been appealed against and 38% of appeals have been successful. Initial results from the reassessment of the remaining incapacity benefit claimants which started in October 2010 show 37% being found fit for work.”

This means that for every hundred claimants, sixty are found to be fit for work. Of that sixty, about tweny-five appeal and that results in just over nine winning.

Nine out of one hundred being given the wrong assessment is a wee bit different from the impression some folk may have.

[Mamyalynne]

A recent documentary on the latest raft of 'Fitness to work' tests by ATOS was very enlightening, a retired GP who had seen some of his patients fall foul of the system, went undercover, with a potential for working for them. To cut a long story short, the briefing he was given - lead to the simple fact that if someone could push a button they could work.

He was duly horrified.

[emmie]

mamy, and so was i, being one of those tested by ATOS. Being put through the mill for almost a year has made my illness much worse. You try and see it from their side, but the system is not a good one which ever way you look at it.

[emmie]

there were two documentaries on the same day about ATOS, and neither were complementary about the system in operation, and the way claimants are handled. Doctors, nurses being told what to say, tick box exercises and lots of misinformation, can only add that it was awful, and not over yet.