Crosswords0 min ago
Are Ian Tomlinson's Family Just After Money?
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Despite the cynical tone of my question, it does bear some consideration given the fact that by all accounts the tragic Mr Tomlinson not only lived by himself but was not in touch with any family members prior to his death.
Since when of course quite a few of his estranged family members suddenly materialised demanding justice for Mr Tomlinson. We've now had loads of public money spent trying to get to the bottom of this tragic incident, including 3 post mortems, an Independent Police Complaint Commission enquiry culminating in a Crown Court trial of now ex PC Simon Harwood (acquitted of manslaughter), and of course yesterday's dismissal of him by the Met Police.
Mr Tomlinson's relatives are still dissatisfied and have referred to the process as 'a whitewash', 'diabolical', 'showboating', and 'no justice'.
And of course the ubiquitous solicitors, the only real winners in all of this, are still stoking the fires, declaring that the family had been 'cheated of an opportunity', and 'the family want a judgement in the civil court".
Hasn't enough of the public purse been used already? Sounds to me like the just want money. Anyone care to dispute that?
Despite the cynical tone of my question, it does bear some consideration given the fact that by all accounts the tragic Mr Tomlinson not only lived by himself but was not in touch with any family members prior to his death.
Since when of course quite a few of his estranged family members suddenly materialised demanding justice for Mr Tomlinson. We've now had loads of public money spent trying to get to the bottom of this tragic incident, including 3 post mortems, an Independent Police Complaint Commission enquiry culminating in a Crown Court trial of now ex PC Simon Harwood (acquitted of manslaughter), and of course yesterday's dismissal of him by the Met Police.
Mr Tomlinson's relatives are still dissatisfied and have referred to the process as 'a whitewash', 'diabolical', 'showboating', and 'no justice'.
And of course the ubiquitous solicitors, the only real winners in all of this, are still stoking the fires, declaring that the family had been 'cheated of an opportunity', and 'the family want a judgement in the civil court".
Hasn't enough of the public purse been used already? Sounds to me like the just want money. Anyone care to dispute that?
Answers
Yes I do believe you could be right Kero. It has been said that his family did not want anything to do with him when he was alive, but have now appeared on the scene with '£' signs in their eyes.
The police have a very difficult job to carry out and like our soldiers they are hampered by political correctness, who knows what happened that day, what prior trouble...
The police have a very difficult job to carry out and like our soldiers they are hampered by political correctness, who knows what happened that day, what prior trouble...
11:43 Tue 18th Sep 2012
-- answer removed --
Kerosene
I refer you back to your post of 17:43.
See what I mean? You can criticise the police in the case of Ian Tomlinson, but that has nothing to do with how you might feel about the two police officers who were shot today.
I thought I'd made that obvious?
Re: your last paragraph. Unless you read an interview with the family, I would be VERY wary of stories bandied about by the papers. They are there to sell copy.
I refer you back to your post of 17:43.
See what I mean? You can criticise the police in the case of Ian Tomlinson, but that has nothing to do with how you might feel about the two police officers who were shot today.
I thought I'd made that obvious?
Re: your last paragraph. Unless you read an interview with the family, I would be VERY wary of stories bandied about by the papers. They are there to sell copy.
sp,
What in God's name has my criticism of ex PC Harwood to do with today's tragedy of the murders of two Policewomen? I'm at a total loss to get your connection?
I happen to speak as I find, and if you're one of the posters mistakenly labelling me as some kind of apologist for the Police, please think again.
As for my last paragraph, didn't you notice my - deliberate - use of the word 'allegedly'? That in itself should tell you that it's hearsay, something which as an ex Police Officer I'm well aware of.
What in God's name has my criticism of ex PC Harwood to do with today's tragedy of the murders of two Policewomen? I'm at a total loss to get your connection?
I happen to speak as I find, and if you're one of the posters mistakenly labelling me as some kind of apologist for the Police, please think again.
As for my last paragraph, didn't you notice my - deliberate - use of the word 'allegedly'? That in itself should tell you that it's hearsay, something which as an ex Police Officer I'm well aware of.
Kerosene
You raised a thread (this one) about Ian Tomlinson's family.
Within the answers you got were criticisms of the police.
Now, your post at 17:43 seemed to be saying that those of us who have criticised the police wouldn't be able to show sympathy to the families of the...
....Ahhh - perhaps I've finally got your point. Are you saying that those who criticise the police couldn't do their job (ie. giving the bad news to the families of the murdered WPCs)?
I'd understand (whilst not agreeing with) that point.
You raised a thread (this one) about Ian Tomlinson's family.
Within the answers you got were criticisms of the police.
Now, your post at 17:43 seemed to be saying that those of us who have criticised the police wouldn't be able to show sympathy to the families of the...
....Ahhh - perhaps I've finally got your point. Are you saying that those who criticise the police couldn't do their job (ie. giving the bad news to the families of the murdered WPCs)?
I'd understand (whilst not agreeing with) that point.
sp,
"No one's saying that the Police are whiter than white."
That's something I also said in my 17:43 post, so I am also acknowledging that I, too, criticise the Police, however, having been in the job for a goodly number of years I think that my grasp of what makes a Police Officer 'tick' is far more accurate than some of the obvious guesswork coming from certain posters on here.
As for the death message bit, maybe you have finally got the point, because those who seem to have such scant regard for the work of Police Officers wouldn't automatically strike me as being of the caring and sharing nature required for such a delicate task.
"No one's saying that the Police are whiter than white."
That's something I also said in my 17:43 post, so I am also acknowledging that I, too, criticise the Police, however, having been in the job for a goodly number of years I think that my grasp of what makes a Police Officer 'tick' is far more accurate than some of the obvious guesswork coming from certain posters on here.
As for the death message bit, maybe you have finally got the point, because those who seem to have such scant regard for the work of Police Officers wouldn't automatically strike me as being of the caring and sharing nature required for such a delicate task.
Sp.. Can we take it you have first hand knowledge of every incident & person
you post about on here. Your either a remarkable,practically omnipotent person (possible
I don't know you.) or your being obtuse & you,in fact, glean your information
from various media outlets like the rest of us.
Nox, you say the family are 'entitled' to financial redress. I say why. Because
every-one's 'entitled' to it? Loss of earnings? Serious question, Nox.
I don't know these people but I've had a very uneasy feeling about their
new-found concern for this poor man.
you post about on here. Your either a remarkable,practically omnipotent person (possible
I don't know you.) or your being obtuse & you,in fact, glean your information
from various media outlets like the rest of us.
Nox, you say the family are 'entitled' to financial redress. I say why. Because
every-one's 'entitled' to it? Loss of earnings? Serious question, Nox.
I don't know these people but I've had a very uneasy feeling about their
new-found concern for this poor man.
The family of Ian Tomlinson have every right to seek redress for his death. Just to remind you - At his inquest, it was determined that it was an "unlawful killing". At the subsequent trial of PC Harwood, he was found not guilty of manslaughter - a judgement brought, in no small part due to the confusion caused by an incompetent and since struck off pathologists report.
Finally, there is another, indirect, verdict upon Harwood - the Met. sack him for an admitted gross misconduct.
The family, rightly, feel let down over this sequence of events, and it has been suggested that they might take civil action.
It has been suggested that his family are persuing this case solely for financial gain - that they cared nothing for him as an individual, only what he represents now as an income stream. I think that is a cynical and vicious allegation. You cannot know the level of affection or love between the members of that family, unless you are a member of the family or one of their relations or close friends.
All this unwarranted, unfounded and hurtful speculation serves to do is to illustrate how spiteful some people can be.....
Finally, there is another, indirect, verdict upon Harwood - the Met. sack him for an admitted gross misconduct.
The family, rightly, feel let down over this sequence of events, and it has been suggested that they might take civil action.
It has been suggested that his family are persuing this case solely for financial gain - that they cared nothing for him as an individual, only what he represents now as an income stream. I think that is a cynical and vicious allegation. You cannot know the level of affection or love between the members of that family, unless you are a member of the family or one of their relations or close friends.
All this unwarranted, unfounded and hurtful speculation serves to do is to illustrate how spiteful some people can be.....
"You cannot know the level of affection or love between the members of that family, unless you are a member of that family, or one of their relations or close friends."
Well, LG, I wasn't aware that the rest of us must be totally unqualified to know how the family feels, whereas YOU are?
"The family, rightly, feel let down" (YOU know how they're feeling but none of the rest of us possibly could???)
So I take that you are either "a member of that family, or one of their relations or close friends." YOUR words, pal.
Well, LG, I wasn't aware that the rest of us must be totally unqualified to know how the family feels, whereas YOU are?
"The family, rightly, feel let down" (YOU know how they're feeling but none of the rest of us possibly could???)
So I take that you are either "a member of that family, or one of their relations or close friends." YOUR words, pal.
@kerosene
Still defending the indefensible? From your own OP -the family have stated for the public record that they feel that the process to date has been a "whitewash" etcetc - very public evidence, PAL, in YOUR own post, and on the public record, of the fact that the family feel let down.
I am not the one claiming that this family are attempting to use the tragic death of a family member as means of leveraging cash, or claiming to know that the family are disenfranchised from each other.
I am the one pointing out that none of us here can know their mindset, and to suggest they have the basest of reasons for persuing this is cynical, or vicious, or spiteful. Which are you, PAL?
Still defending the indefensible? From your own OP -the family have stated for the public record that they feel that the process to date has been a "whitewash" etcetc - very public evidence, PAL, in YOUR own post, and on the public record, of the fact that the family feel let down.
I am not the one claiming that this family are attempting to use the tragic death of a family member as means of leveraging cash, or claiming to know that the family are disenfranchised from each other.
I am the one pointing out that none of us here can know their mindset, and to suggest they have the basest of reasons for persuing this is cynical, or vicious, or spiteful. Which are you, PAL?
LG,
Well done, pal, you totally failed to answer the question which your post begged, so instead you just continue digging a hole for yourself. You must be a politician by the way you completely and brazenly just turn it into a tirade against me.
I'll try again: How can YOU know how this family feels, but the rest of us cannot possibly? (According to YOUR very own words)
So c'mon, pal, grow a pair, man up, put up....or.................?
Well done, pal, you totally failed to answer the question which your post begged, so instead you just continue digging a hole for yourself. You must be a politician by the way you completely and brazenly just turn it into a tirade against me.
I'll try again: How can YOU know how this family feels, but the rest of us cannot possibly? (According to YOUR very own words)
So c'mon, pal, grow a pair, man up, put up....or.................?
@Kerosene
Man up? What are you? 13?
The families displeasure and dissatisfaction are a matter of public record. What none of us can know is the relationship between the members of this family. Unyet you and others here see fit to impugn the family by suggesting that the reason they press for further action is motivated by greed.
This just cynical, vicious or spiteful - so which are you?
Man up? What are you? 13?
The families displeasure and dissatisfaction are a matter of public record. What none of us can know is the relationship between the members of this family. Unyet you and others here see fit to impugn the family by suggesting that the reason they press for further action is motivated by greed.
This just cynical, vicious or spiteful - so which are you?
-- answer removed --
Methyl, another poster wanting financial compensation for this family. You are aware that when people sue the police, goverment etc. they are suing you by proxy.
For every 'compo' case that's won think of a childs life-saving drugs being withheld.(Or an MP's moat getting filled in)
That's not to say all claims are erroneous or all pay-outs undeserved. It's just in cases where a man is estranged from his family & has no financial input,as in this case, why would money bring them any 'closure'.
Perhaps this family would be better advised to keep a some-
what lower profile & draw a line under this sorry saga.
For every 'compo' case that's won think of a childs life-saving drugs being withheld.(Or an MP's moat getting filled in)
That's not to say all claims are erroneous or all pay-outs undeserved. It's just in cases where a man is estranged from his family & has no financial input,as in this case, why would money bring them any 'closure'.
Perhaps this family would be better advised to keep a some-
what lower profile & draw a line under this sorry saga.
Thetaliesen
I wouldn't presume to know about the Tomlinson family just because of reports in the media. I have no personal knowledge of any major news story that I post on, which is why I question and question again and never take anything at face value.
Kerosene
Scant regard?
How do you mean? We can respect the work of the police, we can now them as friends, but we can still criticise them (strongly) when we want.
Are we not allowed to criticise a doctor who accidentally administers the wrong drug which kills a baby because the medical profession do a difficult job?
I wouldn't presume to know about the Tomlinson family just because of reports in the media. I have no personal knowledge of any major news story that I post on, which is why I question and question again and never take anything at face value.
Kerosene
Scant regard?
How do you mean? We can respect the work of the police, we can now them as friends, but we can still criticise them (strongly) when we want.
Are we not allowed to criticise a doctor who accidentally administers the wrong drug which kills a baby because the medical profession do a difficult job?
with regard to people's opinions about the Police I have this to say. Over the years in various guises, from being a 'criminal' to mentoring young offender so they don't re-offend I have had a fair bit to do with the Police and I am happy to report that they are like everybody else. Some are nice, compassionate, honest, wholely suited to their jobs and other are total arses, rude, arrogant beligerant, holier than thou, too aware of their own 'worth' and lacking fine judgement. The vast majority fall into middle ground and range from passionately caring about the job they do to abolsute lacklustre apathy. These are personal observations stretching many forces across many years so I'm happy it's an objective and somewhat broad view of the situation and everyone will have their own opinion based on their own experience.
What irks me about this thread is the OP's idea that if you don't rejoice and appreciate every single thing the police do you are labelled as lacking empathy and branded with having the inability to deal sensitively with a bereaved family etc etc etc ad nauseum.
If I were you Kerosene I'd have a good look at what you have actually posted as you do us all a great dis-service and make yourself look narrow, bitter not very bright which only fuels the fires of any 'police haters' there might be on this thread ( not that I've seen any actually).
What irks me about this thread is the OP's idea that if you don't rejoice and appreciate every single thing the police do you are labelled as lacking empathy and branded with having the inability to deal sensitively with a bereaved family etc etc etc ad nauseum.
If I were you Kerosene I'd have a good look at what you have actually posted as you do us all a great dis-service and make yourself look narrow, bitter not very bright which only fuels the fires of any 'police haters' there might be on this thread ( not that I've seen any actually).
NOX,
"..narrow, bitter, not very bright.."
As someone very much in favour of free speech, I totally recognise your right to your opinions.
You have summed me up in the above way on the basis of my remarks on this thread. Could you elaborate? For example, I've never professed to being blessed with the IQ of an 'Einstein', however, I do feel that I'm quite capable of stringing a few sentences together in a cohesive and forthright manner? Yet you categorise me as "not very bright". Why?
As for being 'narrow' and 'bitter', again, I have also taken a negative view of ex PC Harwood - does that also classify me as 'narrow' and 'bitter'? Or is your opinion based on mine where I happen to believe that having taxpayers' hard earned cash used to somehow assuage the alleged grief of estranged family members is unacceptable? Please explain?
You've said some very judgemental things about me - not, I hasten to add that it causes me loss of sleep - but it would be useful for me to know why you arrive at this conclusion on the basis of this thread?
Others, after all, have also expressed extremely strong opinions as well yet seem to have escaped your wrath. Isn't that somewhat 'narrow' on your part? Or perhaps their points of view have been to your approval which may not categorise them in your eyes of also being as 'bitter' as I allegedly am?
You've seen fit to condemn me - at least tell me why?
"..narrow, bitter, not very bright.."
As someone very much in favour of free speech, I totally recognise your right to your opinions.
You have summed me up in the above way on the basis of my remarks on this thread. Could you elaborate? For example, I've never professed to being blessed with the IQ of an 'Einstein', however, I do feel that I'm quite capable of stringing a few sentences together in a cohesive and forthright manner? Yet you categorise me as "not very bright". Why?
As for being 'narrow' and 'bitter', again, I have also taken a negative view of ex PC Harwood - does that also classify me as 'narrow' and 'bitter'? Or is your opinion based on mine where I happen to believe that having taxpayers' hard earned cash used to somehow assuage the alleged grief of estranged family members is unacceptable? Please explain?
You've said some very judgemental things about me - not, I hasten to add that it causes me loss of sleep - but it would be useful for me to know why you arrive at this conclusion on the basis of this thread?
Others, after all, have also expressed extremely strong opinions as well yet seem to have escaped your wrath. Isn't that somewhat 'narrow' on your part? Or perhaps their points of view have been to your approval which may not categorise them in your eyes of also being as 'bitter' as I allegedly am?
You've seen fit to condemn me - at least tell me why?
The mother of the family was more concerned about the money than the justice part. I think if you want the real truth look into her past and you may find out what kind of person she really is. There are people she has hurt and things she wouldn't want to come out to the public. Things that would change the perceptions of her to the public.
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