Syria / Turkey conflict.

[Hopkirk]

Why has Syria being lobbing bombs at Turkey recently?

Haven't they got enough problems inside their own borders?

[argorstran]

Hopkirk you've read the Western news reports on the situation ,here's a link to Syria's SANA news agency so that you can read the Syrian reports about the situation . Reading only foreign reports about a country without reading its domestic reports is a bit like reading every other page in a book . You'll be better placed to draw your own conclusions . As for my opinion , I think Turkey are the bad guys here . link:
http://sana.sy/index_eng.html

[ichkeria]

And, of course, while we will all want to read Assad's news agency report of matters it is worth bearing in mind that a regime which scarcely blinks at massacring its own people is not going to be too scrupulous about balanced reporting.

[sandyRoe]

Which one, Turkey or Syria?

[jno]

"a regime which scarcely blinks at massacring its own people"

true, but essentially the position of any regime putting down a violent rebellion. It doesn't prove anything about the regime itself one way or another.

[ichkeria]

That's a line to the Syrian news agency report Sandy. I can't reach it at the moment, but I will be interested to read it eventually.
It's always good to get as many views as possible on an issue, but why argorstan thinks - if he does - that this particular version of events is likely to be definitive I really cannot imagine.

[argorstran]

Ickeria the West's journalists have been turning a blind eye to the atrocities being committed by the terrorists . They do not have any moral superiority here and reports which endlessly repeat the word "regime" are not going to be too scrupulous about balanced reporting . Try reading the SANA reports before you dismiss them .

[ichkeria]

jno - it's important to remember that this wasn't a violent rebellion to start with. And I hardly think that the tactics employed by the Syrian regime even now when they ARE faced with civil war constitute reasonable force.

[argorstran]

Ichkeria I do not consider the SANA reports to be definitive but as I said , not looking at a country's domestic reports is like reading only every other page in a book .

[ichkeria]

"Ickeria the West's journalists have been turning a blind eye to the atrocities being committed by the terrorists . They do not have any moral superiority here and reports which endlessly repeat the word "regime" are not going to be too scrupulous about balanced reporting . Try reading the SANA reports before you dismiss them . "

No they haven't. Why do you say that? And in fact as you probably know two Britons were arrested en route to Egypt on suspicion of being involved in the very atrocities you are talking about. As I discovered by watching "western" media believe it or not! I haven't dismissed the SANA reports, but I question your agenda if you think that the Assad regime's own news agency is going to provide THE definitive truth of anything. Why do YOU think that? You have, after all, apparently dismissed the "western" reports. Is there a reason for that particularly?

[ichkeria]

...also, when you talk about "domestic reports" from Syria, don't forget that these include any reports, not just government media.

[argorstran]

Read my previous comment . Your putting words into my mouth and your endless repetition of the word "regime" adds nothing to your argument .

[ichkeria]

What would you call it if not a regime?
<Definition of regime (courtesy of Oxford Dictionary)
a government, especially an authoritarian one:>

My "argument" is merely a response to your heavily implied opinion that all "western" news reports are biased. And that we never hear anything from inside Syria. And I say to you that that is a gross over-simpliification and wonder why you make such a statement. As I indicated right at the start I am sure that the SANA report (when I get to it eventually) may contain some facts that are not in other reports, but they are at the end of the day the mouthpiece for an authoritarian regime (said it again sorry :- )

[Hopkirk]

Personally I wouldn't give tuppence for the official Syrian news service's views.

Can no one give me a simple explanation for why they lobbed bombs into Turkey?

[ichkeria]

Well, I don't really know any more than what I've read, and I can't get to argorstran's Syrian link, but Syria accuses Turkey of aiding and abetting Syrian rebels, which it does seem to be doing, although the aid appears to be either mainly or entirely humanitarian. Turkey is deeply concerned about the civil war on its border, not unnaturally, at the same time and has been accepting refugees from Syria. So there is a huge tension there. The response from Syria in shelling Turkish villages seems entirely arbitrary but on the other hand also entirely in keeping with the actions of a regime with zero concern for any human life. A cynic might say they are deliberately trying to provoke a conflict. or it may just be the lifelong habit of a serial killer I don't know.
And of course things have now got worse with the interception of a Syrian plane from Moscow by the Turkish air force which Turkey claims was carrying "inappropriate cargo" to Syria (since proved correct if you believe the Turkish authorities).
Unable to find any sort of justification for Syria's actions from the horse's mouth, as it were, I turned to RT's website for help thinking it might be the next best thing to SANA (Syrian government media), but even they couldn't help. Interestingly though, while downplaying the murder of innocent Turkish civilians by the Syrian government forces they are trumpeting the airliner incident as an "act of war" by Turkey

[ichkeria]

Just in case anyone still cares I managed to get through to the SANA website eventually but could find no mention of the shelling incident. It's quite hard to find a lot of "news" on there as there doesn't seem to be a search facility and there are only a few items listed.
On the other hand there are lots of articles underlining Venezuela's support for "Syria" including the following gem:
"Venezuelan Ambassador in Damascus Imad Saab stressed on Sunday that the strength and immunity of the Syrian army in addition to its large popular support will make Syria overcome the crisis.
In a statement to SANA, during the coverage of the Venezuelan presidential elections' voting, Ambassador Saab added that the Syrian-Venezuelan relations are in their best condition, highlighting that the bilateral strategic relations are in continuous development. "
and a piece about William Hague which begins:
"Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague on Wednesday admitted that British extremists intend to join the fighting in Syria"
which I believe, to quote Vic Reeves, is "mainly false".
My favourite though is an item near the top of the foreign news section claiming that "The Union of the Young Communists of Czechoslovakia stressed that Syria has achieved lots of successes as it foiled the US scheme which aims at undermining its progressive government and substituting it with another regime loyal to the US before the American Presidential elections. "
"Every other page of the book" indeed :-)

[Hopkirk]

Thanks.

I note that SANA says no weapons were on the plane, and the Turks only go as far as to say there was 'inappropriate' items on board.

[ichkeria]

Yes I noticed that.
Apparently what they found was military communications equipment.
By the way I've since seen suggestions that the shells which landed in Turkey from over the border were stray shells (and that was via the BBC, not SANA!!)

[Hopkirk]

Ah, I thought it might have been the pilot's stash of porn.

[DTCwordfan]

I think its pretty worrisome and I'll say why in a minute.

Mate of mine is out there in Damascus at the moment - was hiked out in a speedy airlift as life in a hotel was getting very scary but now back as his project (a power station) is now self-contained to as to residence/work/security/food - well for the moment.

His views and on-the-ground is that discord against the regime is much more widespread than being reported, the Syrians are trying to suppress information coming out. Aleppo and the North are largely in the hands of those wanting to dump al-Assad and his henchmen (and many a thug). Strife is all over the place and, yes, there are other factions involved in stirring things up too. Plenty of missile and grenade strikes, as well as bombing and some of these have gone over the border. Are the Turks justified in having their frontier communities bombed and shelled, I don't think so and they are right to make their discord known - they have chosen, in true local fashion, an eye for an eye and also in working that ineffectual body called the UN.

The plane situation is perhaps a stage too far as it sucks in Russia - they are entitled to export arms etc if legit and not on the sanctions 3 list. If the equipment is "haraam", then of course there is an issue, however what we are seeing is a possible sucking in and conflagration of the issues in the area, particulalry if Azerbaijan and Georgia come into the equation, the Russians taking advantage of riding roughshod over them, especially Tbilisi.

The unknown one is Iran's position and this one may determine whether we really do see a regional explosion or that Syria remains a local spat, the Israelis of course sitting behind watching very carefully and also ready to intervene. It is this fear of escalation that is driving crude oil price and I see crude benchmarks are up 75c/bbl today.

The other worrying one is that the Syrians have switched off 'tricity imports from Turkey - though I think that will cause more discomfiture than anything, and probably is targeted at Aleppo and the north. Turkish supplies account for 20% of their needs......

It's desperate about Aleppo as the old city is an amazing place, the market being (or was) the largest covered souk in the Muslim world, followed by I think it is Muttrah in the Oman.

[LazyGun]

I dont know enough about the local conditions really, and that is part of the problem for all of us at the moment. The news we get is filtered through PR, Spin, and the relative biases of the media outlets in the West.

That having been said, it does seem pretty clear that Assad is deeply unpopular amongst a sizeable proportion of the population, and the brutal response of the regime to popular protest has created an armed rebellion.

I can only think that the actions against Turkey are calculated to internationalise the conflict - to bring in Iran, Russia etc and maybe the wider arab world if they can portray themselves as being a "victim" of a western- inspired uprising / military adventure....

Its an unholy mess, and the potential for escalation to an all out conflagration across the middle east is scary...