When A Politician Literally Makes You Say..."what The Hell???"

[sp1814]

David Cameron was roundly castigated in parts of the press when he referred to UKIP as being a party of 'fruitcakes'.

Now that we see the views of one of it's somewhat fruitiest of cakes, should we reassess our new 'third party'?

Seriously - isn't this just incredibly stupid? Or has he articulated a popular sentiment?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/18/ukip-candidate-abortion-for-downs-syndrome

By the way - free euthanasia advice for those over 80?

Seriously???

[jno]

has any mainstream party candidate called for anything quite like this, OG?

The normal complaint against them is that they have wacko views but suppress them. If John Major had actually included in his manifesto "Everyone ought to have an affair with Edwina Currie", for instance...

[New Judge]

Sorry to stray from the question a little but there is one theme in this thread (and many others) that is driving me nuts.

Why is it that whenever anybody expresses an opinion (be they politicians, ABers or whoever) which does not accord with that of some others (or more usually the latest “perceived wisdom“), the insults start. These insults usually come from the people complaining that they are “shocked and/or offended” by remarks they find not to their taste. Yet they fail to see the irony of their shocking and offensive reactions. Yesterday there was a thread started by VHG. Not a question, just an observation about immigration. It was dismissed as “shockingly offensive”. No reasoned debate, just instant dismissal.

So to this question. Perfectly fair and reasonable and worthy of discussion. But no. First response:

“UKIP provides legitimacy for racists and other undesirables. The NAZI party resurrected.”

So what brought that on, canary? No mention of racism in the question or, as far as I can see, the linked article. Just because somebody holds views with which you may not agree you immediately denounce them as racists. If you study them properly you will discover that there is no element of racism in UKIP’s policies but you foolishly consider that anybody wanting to restrict right of abode in the UK is racist. The party of “fruit cakes” simply holds the view that the UK is full up and has no more resources to accommodate huge numbers of newcomers (of whatever race). This is a view held by large numbers of the electorate and one now taking hold even among the main parties (with the possible exception of the LibDems).

So, to finally answer your question, sp. No, I doubt that he has expressed a popular sentiment (though some people may share his views) and I don’t think his remarks will attract much support. But there are many undesirables in politics across all parties. Most people will no doubt disagree with Mr Clark’s remarks. But he has views which he is entitled to express without being insulted.

[emmie]

JTP don't all parties have undesirables?

[emmie]

NJ, tend to agree with you on the post about the offensive remarks, you can post an opinion, it doesn't mean that because you hold that opinion you are automatically an idiot, wrong, or as someone put a racist fascist.

[jake-the-peg]

Most parties have undesirables to some extent - in some cases they become undesirable after being elected.

Hopefully they have a process of weeding out people before they become candidates if they have extreme views to start with that might later bring their respective parties into disrepute.

That process seems to have failed UKIP here

AOG - no we Guardianistas *Love* UKIP

UKIP are currently splitting the Tory vote beautifully - Nigel Farage is Ed Milliband's secret weapon right now!

[emmie]

Nigel Farage if used wisely could be Cameron's ticket to being re elected
Many of those who have voted Tory don't feel that they are being heard, not without some justification, so are defecting to the ranks of UKIP. I don't think DC did himself any favours with labelling them fruitcakes.

[emmie]

ED Milliband has a noose around his neck, called Ed Balls.

[emmie]

trig, so you should be, i suggest wait and see. I would hate to see Milliband lead this country.

[youngmafbog]

It's a guardian article. Enough said.

[Old_Geezer]

Every embarrassment is different jno but it's all the same issue in the end. Which suggests the question would folk be happier to have a wacko MP who suppressed the fact or one who was open about it ?

[anotheoldgit]

Once again an excellent summing up by the Judge.

[VHG]

>>>>Now that we see the views of one of it's somewhat fruitiest of cakes

This is the comments of one person.

I am sure you could find members of all the other parties with their own "strange" views on certain subjects.

Just because one member of a political party says something controversial it does not mean all the members of the party think the same.

p.s. My wife works with disabled children and children born prematurely.

While the doctors may be proud of keeping children alive who are born very prematurely, these children often have major medical problems that can last all their life, put great strain on the parents and family, and cost the NHS a lot of money during the child/adults life.

Also parents of a severly disabled child are far more likely to split up, costing the country even more.

She thnks babies are born very permaturely for a reason, usually medical, and just because we CAN keep them alive does not mean we should.

[sp1814]

VHG

But who can predict whether a baby is going to be born premature?

[sp1814]

New Judge:

But he has views which he is entitled to express without being insulted.

I wholly disagree. Just because someone wishes to express his views does not absolve him from being insulted.

If I posted that all Jewish people should be branded with a star of David so that they could be identified and avoided, I should not then act surprised if I am told that I am nothing more than a git.

[New Judge]

Well you would not be told that by me, sp. I was brought up and educated differently. I was brought up to respect the fact that other people have different views, however obnoxious they may seem to me. It is particularly unpleasant when the offensive remarks are made without foundation, such as those made by canary in response to this question.

[ichkeria]

"These insults usually come from the people complaining that they are “shocked and/or offended” by remarks they find not to their taste."

but then
"It is particularly unpleasant when the offensive remarks are made without foundation, such as those made by canary in response to this question. "

You're trying to have it both ways m'Lud: you're complaining about other people being offended but, as I suspected, are rather more squeamish when it comes to yourself :-)

I agree with sp here - there's a difference between causing offence, which can happen all the time, often unwittingly, and the right "not to be insulted/offended".

[anotheoldgit]

There is a correct way and an incorrect way in which one can disagree with another's point of view, hurling insults and fabricated lies against another is the incorrect way.

Perhaps some would be wise to adopt the correct way, which all goes in turn to make this site a more pleasant pass-time activity.

[flip_flop]

"Now that we see the views of one of it's somewhat fruitiest of cakes, should we reassess our new 'third party'?"

I don't see why we should. We haven't (well I haven't) reassessed my opinion of the Labour Party despite the recent Twitter comments from the well known racist Diane Abbott.

[jno]

New Judge, as you observe, VHG's thread wasn't a question. It was a statement of opinion. Even the entire text of the post - "Sad decline of this country" - was a statement or opinion. He made no attempt to "debate" anything. So neither he nor you can complain if he gets statements of opinion in return.