Is It Snowing In Your Neck Of The Woods?
ChatterBank0 min ago
The Mail - Unjustified Hysteria Over British Comedy?
45 Answers
I was browsing the Mail website after reading another thread on AB, when I came across this:
http://
Essentially, the author seems to be arguing that TBFQOTY was an offensive, shocking and distasteful display which should never have been broadcast. They hate it so much, in fact, that they reprint 'the worst parts' all over their article. Did any of you who watched the quiz find it offensive? Does anyone reading the Mail's cherry-picked quotes find them offensive?
This isn't the only time the Mail has published sensationalised nonsense about the state of modern comedy - e.g. Jan Moir's baseless tirade against 'a cabal of foul-mouthed Left Wing comedians' who were alleged to 'hate' Michael McIntyre. (you can see Stewart Lee's response here: http://
Should we listen to these concerns about modern comedy, or are they overblown? And aren't these the same people who on another day will claim that the 'PC Brigade' is censoring all public discourse to stop offending people?
http://
Essentially, the author seems to be arguing that TBFQOTY was an offensive, shocking and distasteful display which should never have been broadcast. They hate it so much, in fact, that they reprint 'the worst parts' all over their article. Did any of you who watched the quiz find it offensive? Does anyone reading the Mail's cherry-picked quotes find them offensive?
This isn't the only time the Mail has published sensationalised nonsense about the state of modern comedy - e.g. Jan Moir's baseless tirade against 'a cabal of foul-mouthed Left Wing comedians' who were alleged to 'hate' Michael McIntyre. (you can see Stewart Lee's response here: http://
Should we listen to these concerns about modern comedy, or are they overblown? And aren't these the same people who on another day will claim that the 'PC Brigade' is censoring all public discourse to stop offending people?
Answers
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by Kromovaracun. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
"I think "I'm offended by this" is just as valid a response as "I love this"."
I would agree,but the former often seems to accompany a sense of entitlement that something 'ought to be done' - and sometimes arguments for censorship. I don't see that people are entitled to the right of protection from offense any more than they are entitled to protection from hating/severely disliking something.
I would agree,but the former often seems to accompany a sense of entitlement that something 'ought to be done' - and sometimes arguments for censorship. I don't see that people are entitled to the right of protection from offense any more than they are entitled to protection from hating/severely disliking something.
people can get what they want, thanks to both democracy and the market. If people get agitated enough, laws get passed and people lose their jobs (eg Jonathan Ross, though technically he walked out).
You cast your votes and you pay your taxes, and it does entitle you to things. Exactly what things is always a matter of negotiation. I strongly doubt will be enough protest about TBFQOTY for anyone to lose their jobs, though if it's felt some of them were insufficiently funny they might not get invited back. And the Mail itself may feel there are diminishing returns from publishing "outraged" stories like this one; if so they too will stop.
But it's worth saying that freedom of speech is not some sacrosanct absolute. It's just one of many possible freedoms, and sometimes they clash and decisions have to be made.
You cast your votes and you pay your taxes, and it does entitle you to things. Exactly what things is always a matter of negotiation. I strongly doubt will be enough protest about TBFQOTY for anyone to lose their jobs, though if it's felt some of them were insufficiently funny they might not get invited back. And the Mail itself may feel there are diminishing returns from publishing "outraged" stories like this one; if so they too will stop.
But it's worth saying that freedom of speech is not some sacrosanct absolute. It's just one of many possible freedoms, and sometimes they clash and decisions have to be made.
"But it's worth saying that freedom of speech is not some sacrosanct absolute. It's just one of many possible freedoms, and sometimes they clash and decisions have to be made."
I agree. But I'm arguing that when freedom of speech runs up against someone's desire not to be offended, speech wins.
Of course, there are examples where speech doesn't win - the famous example being that it doesn't allow you to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre. But I don't think that applies here. I'm just using the Mail's response to the Quiz to attack a mentality which I get the impression is fairly widespread.
I agree. But I'm arguing that when freedom of speech runs up against someone's desire not to be offended, speech wins.
Of course, there are examples where speech doesn't win - the famous example being that it doesn't allow you to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre. But I don't think that applies here. I'm just using the Mail's response to the Quiz to attack a mentality which I get the impression is fairly widespread.
Kromovaracun
/// None of those things are 'no-nos. ///
You have to be joking, two comedians that tried to make such jokes, were labelled racist and their careers ended, I am referring of course to Jim Davison and Bernard Manning.
And we all know what happens if one dares to ridicule Islam and it's associations.
/// None of those things are 'no-nos. ///
You have to be joking, two comedians that tried to make such jokes, were labelled racist and their careers ended, I am referring of course to Jim Davison and Bernard Manning.
And we all know what happens if one dares to ridicule Islam and it's associations.
AOG
Oh come on...Jim Davidson's career on television most certainly did not end because of his race jokes.
Remember the chronology here. He came to fame in the 1970s. His 'chalky' jokes were the mainstay of his career during the 70s.
And then in the 80s, his career really took off, because he became a game show host. Remember, he took over the Generation Game in the 80s, so his race jokes of the 70s could not have possibily ended his career.
Bernard Manning's career likewise did not end because of his race jokes. You're mis-remembering the past. Manning barely had a television career (other then shows like 'The Comedians'). He was more of a club performer, and as such his career continued unabated.
There are programmes on television which mock black people, Asians, gay etc - it's just that you don't watch them, so wouldn't know.
American Dad, Family Guy, 30 Rock, The Cleveland Show all pretty much fit the bill.
Oh come on...Jim Davidson's career on television most certainly did not end because of his race jokes.
Remember the chronology here. He came to fame in the 1970s. His 'chalky' jokes were the mainstay of his career during the 70s.
And then in the 80s, his career really took off, because he became a game show host. Remember, he took over the Generation Game in the 80s, so his race jokes of the 70s could not have possibily ended his career.
Bernard Manning's career likewise did not end because of his race jokes. You're mis-remembering the past. Manning barely had a television career (other then shows like 'The Comedians'). He was more of a club performer, and as such his career continued unabated.
There are programmes on television which mock black people, Asians, gay etc - it's just that you don't watch them, so wouldn't know.
American Dad, Family Guy, 30 Rock, The Cleveland Show all pretty much fit the bill.
i have read some nasty comments by other comedians, and from the general public, some of the comments heard on tv shows are unprintable.
http://
http://
I watched the show and found most of it to be fine, James Corden was not particularly funny though and seemed to be relying on swearing to get a reaction. I do like Jack Whitehall and the fact that he won the peoples vote at the comedy awards, shows that he has got a good following.
I think the Mail is desperately trying to ramp up reaction, given that they have now printed the 'offensive' jokes twice now in the paper! They must hoping that people who have not seen the show will read the jokes in the paper, then raise a complaint and support the stance that they have taken.
If you are able to go online and you read the readers comments following the article, you will see that the vast majority do not support the DM's view, they are telling the DM to get a life and for viewers to switch off if they find it offensive.
I do not find comedy to be any more vulgar now than it was 30 years ago when the Young Ones, The Mary Whitehouse Experience and Brass Eye was on, for the record I used to love watching these shows.
I agree with the view that if viewers find something offensive then change channels or turn off the tv, we all have a choice in this matter!
I think the Mail is desperately trying to ramp up reaction, given that they have now printed the 'offensive' jokes twice now in the paper! They must hoping that people who have not seen the show will read the jokes in the paper, then raise a complaint and support the stance that they have taken.
If you are able to go online and you read the readers comments following the article, you will see that the vast majority do not support the DM's view, they are telling the DM to get a life and for viewers to switch off if they find it offensive.
I do not find comedy to be any more vulgar now than it was 30 years ago when the Young Ones, The Mary Whitehouse Experience and Brass Eye was on, for the record I used to love watching these shows.
I agree with the view that if viewers find something offensive then change channels or turn off the tv, we all have a choice in this matter!
"You must be joking [...] we all know what happens if one dares to ridicule Islam and it's associations."
Nope, I'm not joking. Islam has been extensively ridiculed by modern comedy shows. South Park is most famous for it, but Chris Morris did it too in Four Lions. And hasn't the BBC completely ignored criticism of Citizen Khan, and commissioned a new series? If I'm not mistaken it's going to be aired this year.
SP has responded to your assertions about Mannering/Davidson and knows more of them than I do, so I'll add no further comment to his.
"i have read some nasty comments by other comedians, and from the general public, some of the comments heard on tv shows are unprintable. "
The only alleged example of another comedian slating McIntyre in that entire article is Stewart Lee's "warm diarrhoea" comment - which was taken out of context in a small section of a much longer act where he was trying to perform in-character (see the article by Lee on the subject which I posted in the OP). The only other evidence is some pretty mild tweets.
What about those awful TV comments? Do you remember any?
Nope, I'm not joking. Islam has been extensively ridiculed by modern comedy shows. South Park is most famous for it, but Chris Morris did it too in Four Lions. And hasn't the BBC completely ignored criticism of Citizen Khan, and commissioned a new series? If I'm not mistaken it's going to be aired this year.
SP has responded to your assertions about Mannering/Davidson and knows more of them than I do, so I'll add no further comment to his.
"i have read some nasty comments by other comedians, and from the general public, some of the comments heard on tv shows are unprintable. "
The only alleged example of another comedian slating McIntyre in that entire article is Stewart Lee's "warm diarrhoea" comment - which was taken out of context in a small section of a much longer act where he was trying to perform in-character (see the article by Lee on the subject which I posted in the OP). The only other evidence is some pretty mild tweets.
What about those awful TV comments? Do you remember any?
yes, dire, boring, middle of the road, cringe making, looks Chinese, fat, unfunny so called comedian. perhaps they could be levelled at many others, who knows, but i have heard worse ones. as to Stewart Lee, maybe that was out of context, but having watched him a number of times, i didn't care for his brand of comedy. Late night shows are usually when you plumb the depths of our so called comedy talent. As to the show Big Fat quiz 2012, the parts i watched where indeed cringe making.
when freedom of speech runs up against someone's desire not to be offended, speech wins.
I'm not sure if it does. It's been demonstrated that if you publish insults aimed at the Prophet you may find your offices firebombed. So people tend not to. Is this censorship, editorial judgment, pollitical correctness, or bowing to terrorism?
I have no idea. But it appears that TBFQOTY aimed its insults at the queen instead. Is that a victory or a defeat for freedom of speech? And whichever - is it a good thing or bad?
If you were a TV comedy commissioner, you might take a hard line and say "Right, freedom of speech outweighs any freedom not to be offended, go and make whatever jokes you like." But would you? And would the comedians you hire?
I'm not sure if it does. It's been demonstrated that if you publish insults aimed at the Prophet you may find your offices firebombed. So people tend not to. Is this censorship, editorial judgment, pollitical correctness, or bowing to terrorism?
I have no idea. But it appears that TBFQOTY aimed its insults at the queen instead. Is that a victory or a defeat for freedom of speech? And whichever - is it a good thing or bad?
If you were a TV comedy commissioner, you might take a hard line and say "Right, freedom of speech outweighs any freedom not to be offended, go and make whatever jokes you like." But would you? And would the comedians you hire?
read some of the comments down the page
http://
http://
"It's been demonstrated that if you publish insults aimed at the Prophet you may find your offices firebombed. So people tend not to. Is this censorship, editorial judgment, pollitical correctness, or bowing to terrorism? "
Not sure if this is meant to be rhetorical or not - but of the options above I'd call it 'bowing to terrorism'. If I can go outside the options, I'd be more inclined to call the whole situation one of 'bullying'.
I'm afraid I don't understand the argument you've made in the rest of your post, so I'm not really sure how to respond to it. But in response to your second question - yes, I think the ability to ridicule the Queen (and Islam) freely is important and is something worth taking seriously. And that necessarily extends to people who can do it well and those who can do it badly.
Not sure if this is meant to be rhetorical or not - but of the options above I'd call it 'bowing to terrorism'. If I can go outside the options, I'd be more inclined to call the whole situation one of 'bullying'.
I'm afraid I don't understand the argument you've made in the rest of your post, so I'm not really sure how to respond to it. But in response to your second question - yes, I think the ability to ridicule the Queen (and Islam) freely is important and is something worth taking seriously. And that necessarily extends to people who can do it well and those who can do it badly.
Related Questions
Sorry, we can't find any related questions. Try using the search bar at the top of the page to search for some keywords, or choose a topic and submit your own question.