Working For Free Proves Unlawful.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2277426/Iain-Duncan-Smith-condemns-Poundland-benefits-ruling-opens-40m-floodgate.html#axzz2KhbgXRat

Doesn't the Government consult their legal teams before introducing certain measures?

[emmie]

no they don't, or didn't in this case, the woman concerned was right in that she would have been expected to be paid, good for her.

[emmie]

how can you ban voluntary work, sorry that makes no sense..

[bazwillrun]

I think you can do 16h pw paid work without it affecting your benefits.

i think a lot of people are overestimating how much use this work at Poundland actually is in terms of CV and future employability for most of the people involved.

Most people wouldnt disagree with the principle of doing some kind of working for benefits, but if the work is of no real tangible benefit to the person doing it, then whats the point, they still get the benefits and meanwhile cant look for a suitable job, only person benefiting is the Mr Angry whos chuffed theyre being forced to work, but is too dim to realise that theres actually no benefit except to maybe the employer who gets free labour instead of shelling out the minimum wage for what is in reality a crap partime job

If shes "working" at "Poundland on a forced labour scheme doing "work" that is totally unsuited to her how is she going to find work that is suited.

i'm guessing her voluntary unpaid work at the museum is probably far more beneficial to all concerned and she has time to look for suitable work

[Zeuhl]

Quite right

And worthless activity isn't going to do much for someone's self esteem

Picking up litter on the Bypass or chatting to people in the local Care Home would do more of that but again, the argument is, if that work needs doing shouldn't people be employed and paid to do that properly?

Unemployed people have only two responsibilities while they are receiving benefits;

1. Finding a job asap
2. Engaging in activity that will increase the likelihood of that happening

The government would like us to believe that shoving people into 2 weeks at Poundland is contributing to 2) which it clearly isn't

Having just persuaded someone to spend £30,000 plus on a degree that still leaves them on the dole, that just adds insult to injury

[emmie]

she had to give up the voluntary work, which she appeared to like, to go and work for nothing at poundland, talk about a step down.

[factor-fiction]

>"how can you ban voluntary work, sorry that makes no sense."

I agree, em10- I was playing devil's advocate. A few posts were suggesting that if work needs to be done companies should pay the going rate rather than exploit people. I wondered whether those arguing that also felt that other unpaid work should be paid- eg voluntary work in charity shops, people who help out unpaid at schools, not to mention unpaid internships, work experience for secondary students, trainee teachers etc

[emmie]

i know some people who do get paid working in charity shops.. i couldn't do it, the smell of fusty clothes would see me off.

[modeller]

There are times when willing to work for nothing can work out.
My teacher daughter had decided after 8 years in teaching she wanted a change of career and try public relations so she wrote to several PR companies and offered to work for nothing during her school's summer holiday , to gain experince .
A company took her on but they also paid her and offered her a full time job, which she accepted .

[emmie]

modeller, good for her, i suspect some companies are not so generous.. work for free, no way.

[modeller]

em #work for free, no way. #
I agree in general but sometimes it may be the only of getting into a job requiring expertise. I know a girl who is now a ' hair stylish ' who started by working for very little as a Saturday girl in her local ladies' hair dressers.

I also think the 2/3 weeks 'Work Experience ' in secondary schools has much to recommend it.

[FredPuli43]

At the Bar people starting had to pay! The fee to a 'pupil master', the very experienced barrister whom the newcomer helped and who supervised their work for a year, was 100 guineas (£105), of which the shillings (£5) went to his clerk. He didn't need the money. The pupil could do his own cases after 6 months and earn what he could. If they impressed the pupil master enough,they might be allowed to join the chambers or 'squat' until they could find some chambers which would take them; they couldn't , and can't, practice on their own but have to join more senior barristers in a 'chambers'.

This system, bizarre though it was, was worthwhile. Only the keen ones stuck with it, rather than go into other, paid, employment , they learned a lot, with any luck, and the most able and suited to the rigours and demands of the job survived.

Now, if only the unpaid employment had those qualities, with its hope of a rewarding future, it would be good. Modeller's daughter and the hair stylist are examples of how such a scheme should be.

[joko]

if this person was 18 with no qualifications or expereince etc then id say this was a good think for them - work experience, cash handling, sales, customer liaison etc, but this girl was a graduate in geology - what possible use is it for her?
i doubt shed have even put it on her cv as its irrelevant to any job shed apply for,.

if they do this scheme then they must take time to ensure the jobs will actually be of benefit to the person - other wise its just free labour for companies to get away with not paying a wage.

i wouldnt be surprised if this was because she went to the job centre with a haughty attitude, felt she was above it all and sneered at anything offered to her...
i know a girl who works in the job centre and she said they see it a lot, educated people who act as though they are treading in dog poo even being in the building, that its all beneath them and who feel they should just walk into a high paid role straight out of college and show general disdain for the whole process ... she said she delights in making them do courses etc (she has to do it anyway) but its especially good watching these people huff and puff about it.


i would certainly not put anything like that on my cv - in my industry it would be a total embarassment.