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Should Be Open The Floodgates To Indian Students So We Can Possiby Gain More Trade?
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Much to Teresa May's dismay of limiting those of outside the EU Cameron says Indians coming here are welcome and to be encouraged. Shouldn't Pakistan its next door neigbhbour be encouraged also?
Much to Teresa May's dismay of limiting those of outside the EU Cameron says Indians coming here are welcome and to be encouraged. Shouldn't Pakistan its next door neigbhbour be encouraged also?
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The existing immigration rules make it easier for people to come here from India than from Pakistan. (That's because Pakistan was not a member of the Commonwealth at the time that the rules were drawn up). I suspect that while DC is happy enough to encourage certain types of immigration under the current rules, he's wise enough not to seek legislative changes that would bog Parliament (and his party) down for months on a highly divisive issue.
Numbers of Indian students coming here have fallen pretty dramatically - around 24% - since changes in the Visa laws.
And thats important because foreign students contribute a lot of money into the UK higher education system.
Hence Camerons attitude in attempting to bolster the numbers. Problem is, we are just not seen as such an attractive destination as, say, the US, or Australia for example anymore, in part because of the changes to the Visa system now offered to post-grad students.
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pdq says "but a high proportion stay on after their studies and take jobs from the qualified English students many of whom end up on the dole."
But I do not think the figures support that idea at all.
And thats important because foreign students contribute a lot of money into the UK higher education system.
Hence Camerons attitude in attempting to bolster the numbers. Problem is, we are just not seen as such an attractive destination as, say, the US, or Australia for example anymore, in part because of the changes to the Visa system now offered to post-grad students.
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pdq says "but a high proportion stay on after their studies and take jobs from the qualified English students many of whom end up on the dole."
But I do not think the figures support that idea at all.
well thats your opinion, pdq, but that does not make it true, or a fact.
Our Higher Education System has been subsidised for years by the influx of foreign students coming here to study - beneficial for the Universities, and long term for spreading of British Culture.
Clamping down on the Visa situation for foreign students was no doubt politically popular, but somewhat short-sighted when it came to the funding of higher education.
Our Higher Education System has been subsidised for years by the influx of foreign students coming here to study - beneficial for the Universities, and long term for spreading of British Culture.
Clamping down on the Visa situation for foreign students was no doubt politically popular, but somewhat short-sighted when it came to the funding of higher education.
Lazygun you have misunderstood why the student numbers from India have fallen 24%. The reasons are because of new regulations they were not allowed to stay for 2 years following graduation to find work and is summed up in your reference above.
///The changes in visa rules for non-EU students, which restrict the ease with which a student can stay on in the UK, after their studies. In 2012 the post-study work visa was scrapped, which had earlier allowed students like Prachi to stay on for a further two years to find work///
It was stated that whats the point if you cannot stay beyond graduation. Its just like going on a course. LOL
///The changes in visa rules for non-EU students, which restrict the ease with which a student can stay on in the UK, after their studies. In 2012 the post-study work visa was scrapped, which had earlier allowed students like Prachi to stay on for a further two years to find work///
It was stated that whats the point if you cannot stay beyond graduation. Its just like going on a course. LOL
As for getting foreign students to help pay for our education system. Is this not creeping privatisation? Why shouldn't the taxpayer fund for all our education needs, likewise the NHS. Surely with fewer students it would mean smaller class sizes, less universities, less teachers and lecturers and a generally slimmed down institution. They are doing it with NHS A&E centres and also fire stations.
@pdq No i dont think I have misunderstood why the numbers have fallen. I am well aware of the changes to the post qualification changes for a Visa.
This has undeniably had an impact on students coming to study. Bluntly, they are being made to feel unwelcome. Such a clampdown undoubtedly has played well the the domestic political market, but it has had a profound effect upon funding for higher education.
Were I to go and study in another country, then I would expect to be able to seek work in the country where I have spent time studying, making friends, having relationships etc. After all, for most graduates getting jobs,even pesky foreigners, they will likely be substantial, contributing to the exchequer.
There were definitely some rackets going on with student visas -and some "colleges" that were just vehicles for offering student visas - but to deny graduates the opportunity to seek jobs where they have received their education is a mistake.
Fortunately, the chinese have taken up the slack, at least somewhat...
This has undeniably had an impact on students coming to study. Bluntly, they are being made to feel unwelcome. Such a clampdown undoubtedly has played well the the domestic political market, but it has had a profound effect upon funding for higher education.
Were I to go and study in another country, then I would expect to be able to seek work in the country where I have spent time studying, making friends, having relationships etc. After all, for most graduates getting jobs,even pesky foreigners, they will likely be substantial, contributing to the exchequer.
There were definitely some rackets going on with student visas -and some "colleges" that were just vehicles for offering student visas - but to deny graduates the opportunity to seek jobs where they have received their education is a mistake.
Fortunately, the chinese have taken up the slack, at least somewhat...
pdq1
Surely with fewer students it would mean smaller class sizes, less universities, less teachers and lecturers and a generally slimmed down institution
Are you saying that it would be a good thing to have fewer doctors, engineers, architects, teachers, dentists, lawyers, IT experts...
Would the future be rosier with a substantially less educated youth?
Surely with fewer students it would mean smaller class sizes, less universities, less teachers and lecturers and a generally slimmed down institution
Are you saying that it would be a good thing to have fewer doctors, engineers, architects, teachers, dentists, lawyers, IT experts...
Would the future be rosier with a substantially less educated youth?
Being a Pakistani myself I like this. I have no concern why CD is talking about Indians but I know why he did not talk about Pakistan. Pakistan just does not deserve it. To gain respect first of all one has to have some respect for himself / herself. To gain some respect one has to have some sorts of principles. Unfortunately Pakistan has no interest, value, price or anything like this when it comes to their people, their country and their dos and donts. They can get their 50K plus people killed in a war they still are not sure is theirs. They can destroy their whole country and economy only if Americans would like them to do so. They will kill their own people and put Taliban label on them only because Americans wanted them to kill some Taliban, and then they will release the same most wanted Taliban on American own list because Americans now decided that they want to talk to them so that they could get out of this sticky situation. Why would someone else give any respect to people who have no mind of their own. Yes for India as they have courage to say "NO" when it comes to their own country and interests.
As for qualified, skilled, and highly educated people coming here and benefiting our economy is concerned then I know many doctors, engineers and other highly qualified people who paid for their fake degrees in India, only to take advantage of HSMP or whatever that was called. Most of them are working at building sites "illegally of course" and sleeping under the bridges.
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As for qualified, skilled, and highly educated people coming here and benefiting our economy is concerned then I know many doctors, engineers and other highly qualified people who paid for their fake degrees in India, only to take advantage of HSMP or whatever that was called. Most of them are working at building sites "illegally of course" and sleeping under the bridges.
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I have the same Jake, but the quality coming out of India these days is appalling. This has been the case at the last 4 places I have worked at.
The fact is we are forced to employ substandard Indian staff because they are cheap. All the good ones, got sense and now command a proper fee like the Western people do. But of course we can't employ them because they are not cheap (and not in India!)
The fact is we are forced to employ substandard Indian staff because they are cheap. All the good ones, got sense and now command a proper fee like the Western people do. But of course we can't employ them because they are not cheap (and not in India!)
YMB - I find the quality highly variable
One of the issues is that some organisations have an outdated view of how cheap Indian staff are/should be.
Consequently they are trying to save too much money and getting poorer staff and/or are having retention problems.
You don't want to go down market in staff - either in India or the UK - it's a false economy. You have to recruit the best and pay what you need to to retain them
One of the issues is that some organisations have an outdated view of how cheap Indian staff are/should be.
Consequently they are trying to save too much money and getting poorer staff and/or are having retention problems.
You don't want to go down market in staff - either in India or the UK - it's a false economy. You have to recruit the best and pay what you need to to retain them
There are thousands of students doing Computer Science courses at our universities and many of them can't get jobs because for some reason British companies prefer to import them from India. Are you saying our students are rubbish or not being taught properly I can't make out which. Isn't the problem those from India have a different mental attitude and are willing to accept less wages.....surely they can't be brighter than home grown students? Personally I think its down to our management structure that embraces raw talent from a non-English culture.
@ pdq, Sorry, but your last post comes across as a bit incoherent. I doubt, when we are talking about post-grad students at least, that salary requirements are likely to be much if any less than their native british counterparts, assuming they were applying for a job in this country.
The more people we educate in this country the larger the pool of available talent we can call upon, and if those foreign students elect to go home, they will be spreading british culture with them. The money they bring into education subsidises higher education for all. And in an age when US culture predominates, that seems a good thing to me.
I would be very interested if you had figures that showed that foreign post-grad students were displacing native british candidates for british-jobs - I certainly have never seen any statistics to demonstrate that....
The more people we educate in this country the larger the pool of available talent we can call upon, and if those foreign students elect to go home, they will be spreading british culture with them. The money they bring into education subsidises higher education for all. And in an age when US culture predominates, that seems a good thing to me.
I would be very interested if you had figures that showed that foreign post-grad students were displacing native british candidates for british-jobs - I certainly have never seen any statistics to demonstrate that....
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