Netherlands Allows "paedophile Party" To Run In Next General Election.

[Kromovaracun]

Should freedom of speech include to those who call for lowering the age of consent to 12? Or for legalising child pornography? Or should voters be entrusted to reject these policies on their own, as the court has ruled?

"The new party, which was formed in May, pledged to intensify its campaign to remove the taboo on paedophilia which, it claims, has worsened in the past decade after the arrest of the notorious Belgian paedophile Marc Dutroux. In his most notorious crime, Dutroux kidnapped and imprisoned two young girls and starved them to death."


Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jul/18/topstories3.mainsection

Voice of Russia:
http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_04_16/Europe-ready-to-defend-child-molesters-rights/

[emmie]

a 12 year boy won't go to prison, he would likely go to a youth offenders unit, that is if he is caught. If two 12 year olds are having sex, then the parents aren't doing their job or looking out for them.

[LazyGun]

@Em - But are you saying that if 2 12 year olds were caught having sex, they should be institutionalised, criminalised for doing so?

what about 13 or 14 year olds?

[Sharingan]

No I'm surious as to why it's only the boy you are targeting when in fact the girl is also doing exactly the same thing. I think it's really absurd to criminalise children for having sex with children more or less their own age, what sense does that make?

[emmie]

perhaps it does, however i would dispute loads, however this is one mums view

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/teens-older-children-581/teens-friends-relationships-584/812918-just-found-out-my-12-year-old-daughter-might-have-had-sex-i-m-daze.html

[Sharingan]

sorry em10 but I'm not sure what relevance that has to this? It's just one woman's opinion on her own personal experience and the situation is much bigger than that.

[ummmm]

If kids of a very similar age get caught having sex nothing would happen to them.

[Sharingan]

It's a very old study but it gives some figures for 2002.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sex/story/0,12550,818356,00.html

[emmie]

one woman's opinion, a very worried mother with a very young child - and it's obviously according to some on here, not unusual for very young children to have to sex. if the lad is 15 and she is 12 then that would be wrong wouldn't you agree. The age of consent is 16 is it not, so what would you do with a 10 or 12 year old boy or girl who is caught having sex.

[ummmm]

You ground them! What else can you do? You can't stop them going to school.

[emmie]

the law is pretty clear at least.

http://www.thelawforum.co.uk/underage-sex-laws

[Sharingan]

I certainly wouldn't criminalise them, no. I think it is extremely unlikely that a 10 year old can understand the possible consequences of having sex, but when people get to 12, 13, 14 etc then for me that's a different scenario. No-one should be pressurised into having sex, that is assault, but consenting sex between people of a similar age and 12 and 15 is similar enough for me is not something which ought to be punished. In Germany the age of consent is 14 and it's fine if your partner is anything up to 4 or 5 years older than you, no-one bats an eyelid, and there is a far lower teenage pregnancy rate there than here. You can't just criminalise things you personally feel uncomfortable with.

[ummmm]

It would be wrong to criminalise them. Some youngsters are more sexually advanced than others.

We just have to hope that they can speak to their parents and discuss the emotional implications of getting involved in a sexual relationship and safety issues.

[emmie]

if two twelve year olds are having sex, then the parents haven't done their job. A 20 year old man caught having sex with a 12 year old would go to jail. Don't criminalise the children, however i also don't think we should change our laws, 16 is the age of consent and that should remain. But the point of the post wasn't about us, our laws, and i had already responded to that.

[ummmm]

I disagree. The children of the best parents can still do naughty things.

A 20 year old having sex with a 12 year old would probably involve manipulation even it's consented.

[joko]

em-"i read it the first time, you said plenty of 10/12 year olds already have sex or want to have sex, if that is the case the boys and men involved are breaking the law, and if caught should go to jail"

well you need to read it again if thats what you think i have said!
what has that got to do with anything i have said?


i said 10-12 year olds have sex, and many think about it - it happens whether you like it or not and regardless of whether it is legal!

i wasn't talking about legalities, i was talking about emotions and feeling involved in the decision making.

[joko]

em- "if 12 year old's are having sex parents aren't doing their job properly"

so what? it still doesn't mean it doesn't happen!
that is hardly a valid argument to support your claim that 10-12 yr olds don't have sex!
that's just your judgement of the parents!

saying many parents don't do their job very well is irrelevant, since puberty and sexual feelings and emotions are what make children want to have sex, not being told 'no!' by a parent!
Many of them are in the process of becoming adults, their hormones are going mad - and majority wont do anything physical about it, except think about it - but some will act on it!
the best of parents cannot stop someone if they want to do this.


i went through puberty very early and remember having some sexual feelings at a young age - 7-8 etc

i did not have sex at 10 or 12 ... but i could have if i'd wanted to - the thoughts were there.
in fact, i suspect fear was likely the main reason i didn't do anything, rather than not having any desire to!


what do you think all these fanatical kids looking at the likes of justin bieber etc are thinking about when they think about him?
how they'd like to have tea with him? or play monopoly with him?
i doubt it...

[ummmm]

When you put it like that....

I have 3 kids and they all have completely different personalities. My eldest son has had a girlfriend since he started school. My youngest has only just started showing an interest.

[emmie]

joko, a 10 year old may have those feelings, but acting on them would be two different things.
Young girls have always drooled over pop stars, Frank Sinatra had his many very young followers, as did Elvis and the Beatles.

[LazyGun]

@ Em - Still not sure I fully understand where you are coming from .I first had sex when i was 13 -with a 15 year old girl - should either of us have been criminalised, or put on a sex offenders register, or institutionalised?

Nor do I think my parents were unduly lenient or not doing their job properly - but it is impossible to swathe kids in cotton wool until they are 16.

These things always have a fine line, and boundaries and borders blur. Personally, I think the age of consent should remain at 16 - but if 2 teenagers are having consensual sex, I am not sure we should be penalising anyone. I think the law in Germany is interesting, particularly the 5 year age gap thing.

[emmie]

it is the idea put forward that lots of 10/12 years are having sex, that doesn't sound, seem right. I think some things are best left there.