ChatterBank1 min ago
Integration Doesn't Seem To Be Working
"Census figures show white Britons are leaving areas where they are minority"
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Would you leave your area if you found yourself in the minority?
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Would you leave your area if you found yourself in the minority?
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em
i don't live in London any more, but i'm sure there must be some neighbourhoods with local shops remaining.
I suppose change in at least some of its neighbourhoods is the nature of a modern, successful city.
Our large village has all of the shops you mention in its High Street but we're not likely to host the Olympics anytime soon :-)
i don't live in London any more, but i'm sure there must be some neighbourhoods with local shops remaining.
I suppose change in at least some of its neighbourhoods is the nature of a modern, successful city.
Our large village has all of the shops you mention in its High Street but we're not likely to host the Olympics anytime soon :-)
The presence of local shops depends on two factors 1) the wealth of the neighbourhood; our village is a little too small to support more than a village shop and post office and two hairdressers,two being an indicator of prosperity in the circumstances, but a couple of miles away a bit larger village supports every kind of shop including three computer repair places. From birth (a doctor's surgery with nursing services) to death (an undertakers), everything seems provided for.
2) Local taxes. Some councils seem to think there is no limit to what can be charged and want to plead innocence when that prevents new businesses opening, or tips other viable businesses over the edge.
Landlords sometimes get blamed but, unlike councils, they have to be realistic and tailor their rents to what the market will readily bear, commonly waiving the rent for a period for new tenants (who aren't slow to demand that!)
2) Local taxes. Some councils seem to think there is no limit to what can be charged and want to plead innocence when that prevents new businesses opening, or tips other viable businesses over the edge.
Landlords sometimes get blamed but, unlike councils, they have to be realistic and tailor their rents to what the market will readily bear, commonly waiving the rent for a period for new tenants (who aren't slow to demand that!)
NJ
The age of people you speak to is important too.
When I visit my sister south of the river, I see younger people mixing freely with people of different races and backgrounds.
Also, people aren't stupid - young professionals move to areas like Brixton and New Cross because of the range of Victorian and Edwardian housing stock available.
Same as Kennington, Bethnal Green, Streatham and Hackney.
They buy up, do up and then move on with the profits they've made. Practically everyone I used to hang out with did this. People move for reasons other than feeling that they need to be 'amongst their own kind'.
The age of people you speak to is important too.
When I visit my sister south of the river, I see younger people mixing freely with people of different races and backgrounds.
Also, people aren't stupid - young professionals move to areas like Brixton and New Cross because of the range of Victorian and Edwardian housing stock available.
Same as Kennington, Bethnal Green, Streatham and Hackney.
They buy up, do up and then move on with the profits they've made. Practically everyone I used to hang out with did this. People move for reasons other than feeling that they need to be 'amongst their own kind'.
You’re quite right about the age profile, sp. Older people who knew these areas many years ago have seen the rapid change foisted upon them and they don’t like it. Younger people know no different and just accept things the way they are. Eventually, of course, there will be nobody left who remembers “the good old days” and the transformation will be complete.
The majority of “local” shops in most areas of London, Zeuhl, are owned by the local council. Fred has hit the nail on the head here. Rent and Business Rates on these premises are astronomical. A barber in a local parade of shops that I know had his rent “reassessed” by the Council almost two years ago. The process got off to a bad start with the council wallah only being prepared to visit on the day the shop remained closed (“that’s the day I visit that area”). When he finally did visit he measured up the premises (which had not changed in dimensions since the shop was built) and calculated the rent and rates to be £31,000 pa - an increase of some 28%. You have to do a lot of £8 haircuts to take £600 in a week (before you make any money for luxuries such as water rates, heating and lighting) so my mate the barber closed his shop, as it remains today. No negotiation was possible with the council and they obviously prefer to see empty shops rather than some in use at a reduced rent.
Of course this does not explain “white flight” but may go towards explaining why so many “local” shops lie empty.
The majority of “local” shops in most areas of London, Zeuhl, are owned by the local council. Fred has hit the nail on the head here. Rent and Business Rates on these premises are astronomical. A barber in a local parade of shops that I know had his rent “reassessed” by the Council almost two years ago. The process got off to a bad start with the council wallah only being prepared to visit on the day the shop remained closed (“that’s the day I visit that area”). When he finally did visit he measured up the premises (which had not changed in dimensions since the shop was built) and calculated the rent and rates to be £31,000 pa - an increase of some 28%. You have to do a lot of £8 haircuts to take £600 in a week (before you make any money for luxuries such as water rates, heating and lighting) so my mate the barber closed his shop, as it remains today. No negotiation was possible with the council and they obviously prefer to see empty shops rather than some in use at a reduced rent.
Of course this does not explain “white flight” but may go towards explaining why so many “local” shops lie empty.
NJ
"Younger people know no different and just accept things the way they are"
I'm 47 and have known no different in the areas of London I have lived in. From as long as I remember, large parts of south London have been very racially mixed. I cannot comment on other areas of the country.
Also, it's not a matter of accepting things just the way they are. That suggests there could be a better alternative. For people my age and younger, this is my London and its not a compromise or fudge.
"Younger people know no different and just accept things the way they are"
I'm 47 and have known no different in the areas of London I have lived in. From as long as I remember, large parts of south London have been very racially mixed. I cannot comment on other areas of the country.
Also, it's not a matter of accepting things just the way they are. That suggests there could be a better alternative. For people my age and younger, this is my London and its not a compromise or fudge.
NJ, remind me. What were the "good old days" like in the areas of London which have now so many immigrants? Were these old days as recent as the mid-1960s? I lived in central London from 1966 . And I worked in all areas of London from 1969, having qualified, keeping a home there until recently. My family still lives there. Let's compare notes.
I don’t actually believe there were “good old days in London, Fred. Inner London in particular has always been diverse in my memory. Where I lived in north London there were people of all races from many nations for as long as I can recall. But there were no areas that were almost exclusively the preserve of any particular race. There was a mixture (just as there is where I live now) and everybody generally got on fine. There was no resentment, no feeling of being “overwhelmed”. That is certainly not the case now in some of the areas I have mentioned. Whether or not white British people in those areas are entirely correct in their belief is not really the point. That is how they feel.
So many replies!
I have noticed that many ethnic groups do not integrate very well with the indigenous population, some British people feel isolated and unwelcome in their own communities, I also think anti social behaviour has a lot to do with it. I also see "White Britons" wanting to move away from their "White British" neighbour.
I have noticed that many ethnic groups do not integrate very well with the indigenous population, some British people feel isolated and unwelcome in their own communities, I also think anti social behaviour has a lot to do with it. I also see "White Britons" wanting to move away from their "White British" neighbour.
"Would you leave your area if you found yourself in the minority?"
It depends - are we talking "just bloody w*gs" here or other different groups of people? I wouldn't be too happy about living in an area populated by violent criminals regardless of their ethnic background.
This looks like yet another typical example of Daily Bogroll sh!t stirring ethnophobic nonsense, after all, that evil rag is famous for it.
It depends - are we talking "just bloody w*gs" here or other different groups of people? I wouldn't be too happy about living in an area populated by violent criminals regardless of their ethnic background.
This looks like yet another typical example of Daily Bogroll sh!t stirring ethnophobic nonsense, after all, that evil rag is famous for it.
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