ChatterBank6 mins ago
Is The Civil War In Syria Worth Starting An Even Greater War For?
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Britain and France seem very anxious to get involved, have we not learned any lessons from all the other conflicts we have poked our noses in?
Britain and France seem very anxious to get involved, have we not learned any lessons from all the other conflicts we have poked our noses in?
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It doesn't look as if any victorious side is about to hold free and open elections shortly after its victory does it?
So why are we backing one side over the other - I guess that we've been so antipathetic to the Syrian regieme over the years and we've supported (at least verbally and politically) the rebells now so much that the Foreign office's estimation is that we have nothing to gain if Assad wins.
If on the other hand the rebels win and we've significantly assisted them we may have more influence with them than the zero influence we have with Assad.
Of course the Russians have precisely the opposite calculation.
This is bearing all the hallmarks of a post cold-war conflict where two sides in a developing region battle it out at great human cost while getting ever more deadly armaments from industrial nations.
It's very ugly indeed
So why are we backing one side over the other - I guess that we've been so antipathetic to the Syrian regieme over the years and we've supported (at least verbally and politically) the rebells now so much that the Foreign office's estimation is that we have nothing to gain if Assad wins.
If on the other hand the rebels win and we've significantly assisted them we may have more influence with them than the zero influence we have with Assad.
Of course the Russians have precisely the opposite calculation.
This is bearing all the hallmarks of a post cold-war conflict where two sides in a developing region battle it out at great human cost while getting ever more deadly armaments from industrial nations.
It's very ugly indeed
more secular and more socialist and more aligned with Hammas
Syria has been under an catagirisation as a state sponsor of terrorism since the 80's and under embargo for as long as I can remember
http://
Syria has been under an catagirisation as a state sponsor of terrorism since the 80's and under embargo for as long as I can remember
http://
An argument in the Times by their War Correspondent said that we ought to start arming the Rebels -- regardless of who they are -- to give Assad a good reason to go to the negotiating table. As long as he feels he can win this War will continue. I don't know whether or not I agree with this argument, but I thought I would share it.
well we haven't come out and condemned him in the past, he has been in power for a long time, it's only now with the fighting between his forces and the various factions, that matters have been brought to a head, that we see on the news the dead and dying, and who is sure who caused what, because even the experts aren't sure.
Dear Tora and all, regarding Tora's question "why do I describe us as bankrupt?"
We are financially bankrupt because if our world lenders called in their loans we could not pay them. If we were a commercial enterprise we would be illegally trading while insolvent. Our future is to pay our debts by borrowing more, like an individual in a muti-credit-card spiral. We are also morally bankrupt, trying to make the poor pay back the debts of the rich bankers and their rich fellow-travellers.
Getting back to the point - this means that if we knew of a successful military solution in Syria we could not afford it. Perhaps we send an aircraft-carrier although it would have no aeroplanes (pmsl)! Besides, our "leader" is too busy sunning himself and family.
Disagree with those saying these interferences are NATO versus Russia by proxy. It's just that Russia learnt the lesson in Afghanistan and the USSR-dissident states. Force just spirals the violence. We never learned that USSR/Afghanistan lesson.
I am no pacifist but we should only fight anyone invading our shores.
SIQ.
We are financially bankrupt because if our world lenders called in their loans we could not pay them. If we were a commercial enterprise we would be illegally trading while insolvent. Our future is to pay our debts by borrowing more, like an individual in a muti-credit-card spiral. We are also morally bankrupt, trying to make the poor pay back the debts of the rich bankers and their rich fellow-travellers.
Getting back to the point - this means that if we knew of a successful military solution in Syria we could not afford it. Perhaps we send an aircraft-carrier although it would have no aeroplanes (pmsl)! Besides, our "leader" is too busy sunning himself and family.
Disagree with those saying these interferences are NATO versus Russia by proxy. It's just that Russia learnt the lesson in Afghanistan and the USSR-dissident states. Force just spirals the violence. We never learned that USSR/Afghanistan lesson.
I am no pacifist but we should only fight anyone invading our shores.
SIQ.
we owe approximately 1 years worth of GDP. If the balance of your mortgage was the same as your annual salary would that make you bankrupt?
As for calling loans that is true of every financial institution in the world. We know that if all the lenders(savers) asked for their money back the system would collapse. That's irrelevant in effect.
As for calling loans that is true of every financial institution in the world. We know that if all the lenders(savers) asked for their money back the system would collapse. That's irrelevant in effect.
andy-hughes
/// i am sure you would agree that a less than even chance of success is never good enough odds not to try - if that were applied to almost any endevour in history from Colombus to the moon landings, we would cease to advance immediately. ///
/// So yes, it is a dream - but a worthwile one, I am sure you will agree. ///
Yes I agree Andy but we are not talking about one man's thoughts and visions against another's, and not future lands and heavenly bodies as in your analogy..
/// i am sure you would agree that a less than even chance of success is never good enough odds not to try - if that were applied to almost any endevour in history from Colombus to the moon landings, we would cease to advance immediately. ///
/// So yes, it is a dream - but a worthwile one, I am sure you will agree. ///
Yes I agree Andy but we are not talking about one man's thoughts and visions against another's, and not future lands and heavenly bodies as in your analogy..
Dear ToraToraTora,
Sorry for the delay but other matters tore me away. I'd better make this PART 1 for digestibility.
Despite the truth of my "Britain is bankrupt" statement, you are right that our foreign lenders will not foreclose on us. And yes, most countries are bankrupt by definition. I should have used the word insolvent.
If you pay for aircraft carriers without any aeroplanes you are insolvent but making a futile gesture. Similarly you are insolvent when hundreds of thousands of your citizens are begging for food from charitable food-banks or when hospital patients are left to starve to death through lack of state resources.
Sorry Tora, your mortgage example was a poor one. If you can meet your repayments or an agreed easier alternative (interest-only maybe) on the massive debt you are a going concern and OK. Mortgagers are in it for the profit which comes from part of every penny you repay. Lol, if you choose an endowment mortgage as example you are closer to my original definition of bankruptcy as missing a few payments means foreclosure.
Must stop for now - END OF PART 1.
See you later,
Regards,
SIQ.
Sorry for the delay but other matters tore me away. I'd better make this PART 1 for digestibility.
Despite the truth of my "Britain is bankrupt" statement, you are right that our foreign lenders will not foreclose on us. And yes, most countries are bankrupt by definition. I should have used the word insolvent.
If you pay for aircraft carriers without any aeroplanes you are insolvent but making a futile gesture. Similarly you are insolvent when hundreds of thousands of your citizens are begging for food from charitable food-banks or when hospital patients are left to starve to death through lack of state resources.
Sorry Tora, your mortgage example was a poor one. If you can meet your repayments or an agreed easier alternative (interest-only maybe) on the massive debt you are a going concern and OK. Mortgagers are in it for the profit which comes from part of every penny you repay. Lol, if you choose an endowment mortgage as example you are closer to my original definition of bankruptcy as missing a few payments means foreclosure.
Must stop for now - END OF PART 1.
See you later,
Regards,
SIQ.
Although this site seems to have died on it's feet I'll continue to fill my promise to Tora. PART 2.
Bankruptcy and insovency apart, states can be financially ruined through a massive run on the currency and hence devaluation. Classically Germany after the 1st World War when the deutschmark became valueless.
Eisenhower theatened to ruin the British currency if we didn't get out of Egypt in the Suez crisis.
Our escalating borrowing and stagnant economy could well bring progressive devaluation. It's really happening now as the govt. keep things like pensions constant whlle ignoring inflation.
That's it folks. Kind regards to Tora.
SIQ.
Bankruptcy and insovency apart, states can be financially ruined through a massive run on the currency and hence devaluation. Classically Germany after the 1st World War when the deutschmark became valueless.
Eisenhower theatened to ruin the British currency if we didn't get out of Egypt in the Suez crisis.
Our escalating borrowing and stagnant economy could well bring progressive devaluation. It's really happening now as the govt. keep things like pensions constant whlle ignoring inflation.
That's it folks. Kind regards to Tora.
SIQ.
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