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Us And Taliban To Open Direct Peace Talks In Qatar
A good thing - or not?
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It was a bit sweeping true - and I'm primarilly thinking of the US but as I recall the general mood in the UK was prett hawkish.
By the time Iraq came about there was the biggest protest ever to hit London to object to that in 2003 some people claimed that with protests in other countries it was the largest protest ever.
By the time Iraq came about there was the biggest protest ever to hit London to object to that in 2003 some people claimed that with protests in other countries it was the largest protest ever.
Breaking news..talks suspended. That didn't last long.
http://
http://
Em10
I think the mood in 2001 was somewhat different than you remember it. There was overwhelming support from the public. And politicians from all sides were fully support Blair.
// The leader of the Opposition, Iain Duncan Smith, assured the Prime Minister that the Conservatives would show “full support for his immediate pledge to stand shoulder to shoulder with the US” and would give their “total backing throughout in maintaining his position of unflinching support for the United States in its search for the perpetrators and its subsequent action.”45 He spoke of the values of democracy and the rule of law that had been “attacked with such callous and brutal ferocity, and contempt for human life”, and assured the House that “we are united ... in our determination not only to extend our genuine and heartfelt sympathy to the United States but to defend civilised values against those who seek to bring them down by violence.”46
The Liberal Democrat leader, Charles Kennedy, expressed his support for the Prime Minister’s comments and associated himself with the expressions of sympathy for the United States and those affected by the attacks. //
I think the mood in 2001 was somewhat different than you remember it. There was overwhelming support from the public. And politicians from all sides were fully support Blair.
// The leader of the Opposition, Iain Duncan Smith, assured the Prime Minister that the Conservatives would show “full support for his immediate pledge to stand shoulder to shoulder with the US” and would give their “total backing throughout in maintaining his position of unflinching support for the United States in its search for the perpetrators and its subsequent action.”45 He spoke of the values of democracy and the rule of law that had been “attacked with such callous and brutal ferocity, and contempt for human life”, and assured the House that “we are united ... in our determination not only to extend our genuine and heartfelt sympathy to the United States but to defend civilised values against those who seek to bring them down by violence.”46
The Liberal Democrat leader, Charles Kennedy, expressed his support for the Prime Minister’s comments and associated himself with the expressions of sympathy for the United States and those affected by the attacks. //
There was another reason to go into Afghanistan and that was to stop the appealing excesses of the Taliban. Just to remind everybody that this is the uneducated, stupid and backward organisation that believes in shooting little girls in the head because they want to go to school, an activity that the rest of the world regards as entirely normal.
And we are going to negotiate with the these people ? Perhaps we should have negotiated with Hitler in the 1940's and ignored his attempt to completely erase millions of people and their religion.
Sometimes we have to stand up and fight evil organisations, rather then stand by and watch them commit slaughter and mayhem. Not always easy I grant you but surely it was, and still is worth a try ?
And we are going to negotiate with the these people ? Perhaps we should have negotiated with Hitler in the 1940's and ignored his attempt to completely erase millions of people and their religion.
Sometimes we have to stand up and fight evil organisations, rather then stand by and watch them commit slaughter and mayhem. Not always easy I grant you but surely it was, and still is worth a try ?
Em10
A MORI poll in September 2001 showed 83% approval for our military action.
http://
A MORI poll in September 2001 showed 83% approval for our military action.
http://
You are never going to achieve some military victory in Afghanistan and install a western-approved democracy with equal values for all overnight, Mikey.
There was an attempt to negotiate with Hitler prior to our entrance into the war in 1939. History does not treat Chamberlain well, but his memories, and the memories of the general public and political elite was still raw over the wanton death and destruction of the first world war.
Sometimes you might indeed have to stand up to an "evil" - but engaging in a war should never be taken lightly - diplomacy and negotiation should always take precedence.
So any solution to Afghans woes will have to be a politically negotiated one, even if the solution becomes one the West finds unpalatable. Changing embedded cultural values takes time for evolution - revolution should not be something we attempt to impose upon other countries.
And, however objectionable one finds the cultural values of another society, that does not give us a mandate to invade and impose our own values.
Changing Afghan society was never a stated intention of the war in afghanistan.....nor should it have been.
There was an attempt to negotiate with Hitler prior to our entrance into the war in 1939. History does not treat Chamberlain well, but his memories, and the memories of the general public and political elite was still raw over the wanton death and destruction of the first world war.
Sometimes you might indeed have to stand up to an "evil" - but engaging in a war should never be taken lightly - diplomacy and negotiation should always take precedence.
So any solution to Afghans woes will have to be a politically negotiated one, even if the solution becomes one the West finds unpalatable. Changing embedded cultural values takes time for evolution - revolution should not be something we attempt to impose upon other countries.
And, however objectionable one finds the cultural values of another society, that does not give us a mandate to invade and impose our own values.
Changing Afghan society was never a stated intention of the war in afghanistan.....nor should it have been.
gromit from your link
MORI interviewed 603 adults aged 18+
Interviews were conducted by telephone on 1-2 November 2001
Results are based on all respondents unless otherwise stated
Data are weighted to the known population profile
An '*' indicates a finding of less than 0.5%, but greater than zero
Where percentages do not add up to exactly 100% this may be due to computer rounding, the exclusion of "don't knows" or to multiple answers
Poll conducted by MORI on behalf of The Mail on Sunday
MORI interviewed 603 adults aged 18+
Interviews were conducted by telephone on 1-2 November 2001
Results are based on all respondents unless otherwise stated
Data are weighted to the known population profile
An '*' indicates a finding of less than 0.5%, but greater than zero
Where percentages do not add up to exactly 100% this may be due to computer rounding, the exclusion of "don't knows" or to multiple answers
Poll conducted by MORI on behalf of The Mail on Sunday
It's surprising how representative a sample as small as 603 can be, if it's well-selected. That said, the mood in November 2001 was probably heavily influenced by how recent the biggest terrorist attack ever was at the time.
I still think that we were right to invade Afghanistan -- and Iraq, too, if it comes to that -- but they were both badly handled and have turned out badly. Not sure that talks will achieve anything but you'd have thought it can't really hurt to try.
I still think that we were right to invade Afghanistan -- and Iraq, too, if it comes to that -- but they were both badly handled and have turned out badly. Not sure that talks will achieve anything but you'd have thought it can't really hurt to try.
Again Lazy Gun, I hope you are right. But the Taliban and Al Qaeda are so awful that its difficult to see how any negotiations can even start. They would have to reject almost all of their stated beliefs in order to satisfy the most basic of human rights and they have shown not the slightest indication yet that they are so inclined to do so.
I know its not realistic to think that we will end up with a kind-of Afghan Home Counties, with mosques instead of churches, and everybody having nice neat front gardens. Its a part of the world that has never known democracy, and its certainly daft to expect that normal civilisation will descend on this backward part of the world any time soon. But there appears to be some evidence that a lot of Afghans quite like all the changes that have come to their country since the West intervened. After all, what's not to like about schools, hospitals, clean water, peace, etc.
I am not sure how any talks can even commence but I wish them every luck for the future. We should remember, however, the old adage "that when you sup with the Devil, you had better have a very long spoon indeed"
I know its not realistic to think that we will end up with a kind-of Afghan Home Counties, with mosques instead of churches, and everybody having nice neat front gardens. Its a part of the world that has never known democracy, and its certainly daft to expect that normal civilisation will descend on this backward part of the world any time soon. But there appears to be some evidence that a lot of Afghans quite like all the changes that have come to their country since the West intervened. After all, what's not to like about schools, hospitals, clean water, peace, etc.
I am not sure how any talks can even commence but I wish them every luck for the future. We should remember, however, the old adage "that when you sup with the Devil, you had better have a very long spoon indeed"
Em10
Similar results in this YouGov/Observer poll Sept2001,
3. Do you think there should be NO military retaliation, and that any action should be limited to economic and/or diplomatic sanctions against countries knowingly harbouring terrorist organisations?
Yes 19 (21)
No 71 (68)
Don't know 10 (10)
http://
If you think there was widespread opposition to our involvement in Afghanistan in 2001, the you are wrong. The public lost patience with it, several years later.
Similar results in this YouGov/Observer poll Sept2001,
3. Do you think there should be NO military retaliation, and that any action should be limited to economic and/or diplomatic sanctions against countries knowingly harbouring terrorist organisations?
Yes 19 (21)
No 71 (68)
Don't know 10 (10)
http://
If you think there was widespread opposition to our involvement in Afghanistan in 2001, the you are wrong. The public lost patience with it, several years later.
they had time , we had money
looks like theyve won
they will basically get what they want....
all foreign troops etc out and them eventually back running things like the backwards murdering medievil scum they are.
Kharzi and others will do a runner with the "stolen" millions (given to them in the knowledge this was always going to be the outcome, but in the guise of aid etc etc)...
What a complete and utter waste of British (and other) military personnel lives.
but typical of politicians we are where we are because as always they act in their interests not ours, no matter what they say.
all for what ? ....a seething schithole called afghanistan....pffffftttt
looks like theyve won
they will basically get what they want....
all foreign troops etc out and them eventually back running things like the backwards murdering medievil scum they are.
Kharzi and others will do a runner with the "stolen" millions (given to them in the knowledge this was always going to be the outcome, but in the guise of aid etc etc)...
What a complete and utter waste of British (and other) military personnel lives.
but typical of politicians we are where we are because as always they act in their interests not ours, no matter what they say.
all for what ? ....a seething schithole called afghanistan....pffffftttt
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