Quizzes & Puzzles3 mins ago
Alan Turing
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The bill to effect a statutory pardon for Alan Turing is progressing - http://
- it has cross party support, and the government will not oppose it.
Alan Turing was convicted under section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885; but then, so were around 49,000 other gay men to 1967, including Oscar Wilde. If the pardon is being enacted now because times are more enlightened and the 1885 act is seen as unjust, why no pardon for Oscar Wilde, or indeed the other 49000?
Indeed, why no pardon for all "victims" of past unjust legislation?
- it has cross party support, and the government will not oppose it.
Alan Turing was convicted under section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885; but then, so were around 49,000 other gay men to 1967, including Oscar Wilde. If the pardon is being enacted now because times are more enlightened and the 1885 act is seen as unjust, why no pardon for Oscar Wilde, or indeed the other 49000?
Indeed, why no pardon for all "victims" of past unjust legislation?
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NJ, yes he was what, if you meant he was treated appallingly, i wholeheartedly concur with that.
he elected for the chemical castration rather than go to prison..
This was a very complex individual, the more you read about him the more complex it gets.
Thank goodness we have moved on from those dark days, or have
we, seeing we have some people in our country who don't approve and actively despise gays, but at least we have proper protective laws in place on matters of homosexuality, racism and sexism.
he elected for the chemical castration rather than go to prison..
This was a very complex individual, the more you read about him the more complex it gets.
Thank goodness we have moved on from those dark days, or have
we, seeing we have some people in our country who don't approve and actively despise gays, but at least we have proper protective laws in place on matters of homosexuality, racism and sexism.
It's a complex ethical question which might appear as an essay topic for those undertaking an MA in Ethics: 'Alan Turing should be exonerated or pardoned. Discuss.
A good question, because there is no 'right' answer, only shades of opinion. The statue in Manchester however indicates the general level of opinion, that the law in 1945 was as barbaric as burning alive for witchcraft in 1545.
A good question, because there is no 'right' answer, only shades of opinion. The statue in Manchester however indicates the general level of opinion, that the law in 1945 was as barbaric as burning alive for witchcraft in 1545.
Just found this on the 'net, for those that might be interested :::
http://
http://
I have huge respect and affection for Alan Turing, the father of computing. His work at Bletchley and of course in computing generally. However, many laws in the past would not be in place today, we cannot go backwards through history and pardon everyone convicted of something that is not a crime today.
Tommy Flowers was nowhere near as important as Turing
If all Turing had done was work on the Station-X program then you might have a point.
But he was a hugely important mathematician - possibly one of the most original minds of the 20th century and lain the theoretical groundwork for computers
He was made a fellow at Cambridge at the age of 22 after some brilliant work on probability theory. He extended Godel's work using his concept of 'Turing machines'
Tommy Flower's contribution to the war effort may have been as significant as Turing's but there was way way more to Turing than that
If all Turing had done was work on the Station-X program then you might have a point.
But he was a hugely important mathematician - possibly one of the most original minds of the 20th century and lain the theoretical groundwork for computers
He was made a fellow at Cambridge at the age of 22 after some brilliant work on probability theory. He extended Godel's work using his concept of 'Turing machines'
Tommy Flower's contribution to the war effort may have been as significant as Turing's but there was way way more to Turing than that
The issue seems to be, not that Alan Turing should be pardoned because the law under which he was convicted was archaic and fundamentally wrong - which it is, but that he should be pardoned because of his contribution to the country as a whole.
That is a very dangerous path to tread, because you have to draw a line of 'deservedness' - at what point does a contribution to national progress entitle an individual to a pardon for a crime?
If you take that line, then Mussolini should be pardoned because he made the trains run on time!
The way to avoid such an invidious position is for laws and convictions to stand, unless proven to be unsafe and unsatisfactory, not because history deems a convicted individual to be a useful person, and therefore entitled to a 'let off'.
It makes mockery of the law.
That is a very dangerous path to tread, because you have to draw a line of 'deservedness' - at what point does a contribution to national progress entitle an individual to a pardon for a crime?
If you take that line, then Mussolini should be pardoned because he made the trains run on time!
The way to avoid such an invidious position is for laws and convictions to stand, unless proven to be unsafe and unsatisfactory, not because history deems a convicted individual to be a useful person, and therefore entitled to a 'let off'.
It makes mockery of the law.
pretty important i would say. His work on colossus was outstanding.
http://
http://
andy, the way the pardon is written does not quash the conviction, nor waive the sentence:-
(2) This Act does not affect any conviction or sentence or give rise to any right, entitlement or liability, and does not affect the prerogative of mercy.
http://
(2) This Act does not affect any conviction or sentence or give rise to any right, entitlement or liability, and does not affect the prerogative of mercy.
http://
Thanks for that mushroom.
In that case - what does the Pardon actually mean?
Does it mean that Mr Turing was not guilty as charged - clearly it does not.
So does it mean that he was guilty, but because he ended up being such a good egg, that we are now willing to look at him through our modern eyes and decide that he was actually a 'good' criminal?
The whole notion it fatuous - it should be applied universally, or not at all, and not based on some merit status decided by who knows who - that, as I said, makes a mockery of the law.
In that case - what does the Pardon actually mean?
Does it mean that Mr Turing was not guilty as charged - clearly it does not.
So does it mean that he was guilty, but because he ended up being such a good egg, that we are now willing to look at him through our modern eyes and decide that he was actually a 'good' criminal?
The whole notion it fatuous - it should be applied universally, or not at all, and not based on some merit status decided by who knows who - that, as I said, makes a mockery of the law.
The sad thing is Andy, far from ending up as a good egg, he started as a good egg, the prosecution and subsequent suicide happenned well after the war, the nation he contributed massively to, let him down because of some rediculous law of the day. He was treated appallingly. This is not really a "pardon" more of a "thanks from a grateful nation and forgive our barbarity" .
i appreciate what you say Tora, but you cannot run a system of law that offers pardons to criminals based on their good works, it simply isn't workable.
I have no issue with Mr Turing's orientation, or his obviouos contribution to the nation, but the second does not negate the first, which at the time was a crime.
The law has passed countlesss barbaric and indefensible sentences on people in the past - none are pardoned becaause of their innocence - which is more deserving than any good works.
So if we are to start a 'pardon' system, let's start with the first child hung for stealing a loaf, and carry on from there.
I have no issue with Mr Turing's orientation, or his obviouos contribution to the nation, but the second does not negate the first, which at the time was a crime.
The law has passed countlesss barbaric and indefensible sentences on people in the past - none are pardoned becaause of their innocence - which is more deserving than any good works.
So if we are to start a 'pardon' system, let's start with the first child hung for stealing a loaf, and carry on from there.
For those interested, David Allen Green, Barrister and Legal commentator of the New Statesman, has produced an excellent analysis of Turings case and how tragic it all is.
In it, he argues that a pardon is anyway meaningless, that it does nothing for the 1000s of men convicted under Section 11 as was, and is therefore just "gesture politics".
He also argues that a much better solution would be for those convicted under this law, as with Alan Turing, should be able to apply to have their case removed entirely - but individuals or their families would have to apply individually, since there may have been other circumstances to take into account....
Very interesting article
http://
In it, he argues that a pardon is anyway meaningless, that it does nothing for the 1000s of men convicted under Section 11 as was, and is therefore just "gesture politics".
He also argues that a much better solution would be for those convicted under this law, as with Alan Turing, should be able to apply to have their case removed entirely - but individuals or their families would have to apply individually, since there may have been other circumstances to take into account....
Very interesting article
http://
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