How Would We Fair With The Echr....

[ToraToraTora]

If we did what all the ABLW's wanted and gave Gib to the Spanish against the wishes of 99.99999% of the population? Ditto the Falklands to the Argies? Is it ok to ignore human rights if it's for the right on Liberal cause? We get a lot of whining about both places but no one seems to give us any idea how it would work in practice.

[Quizmonster]

I presume ABLWs is your latest descriptor for AnswerBank Left-Wingers. If so, I can assure you that what you say does not apply to ME and I am most assuredly a left-winger. I'm never sure what you mean by "Liberal cause" and I'm certainly not a Liberal.
However, there is no way the UK should ever compromise on either Gibraltar or the Falklands with the likes of Argentina or Spain, both of whom are - as ever - trying to whip up local support for their silly claims to conceal the disaster that each government is making of ruling the countries they DO control!

[jake-the-peg]

Er who's suggesting handing over Gibralter to Spain?

Or the Falklands to the Argentinians?

Exactly - I'm pretty sure I've never advocated either and I'm not sure I remember anybody else doing so (unless they were ust trying to wind you up)

The wishes of the population have to have the main bearing after legal obligation (eg Hong Kong where we were legally obligated to hand it back)

[Spoonboy]

By and large it seems that the European Union doesn't like us; therefore, if Dave and George take legal action against Spain and lose, this would be the time to stick a couple of fingers up at the EU and finally go it alone. But, that's just my opinion.

[jake-the-peg]

//By and large it seems that the European Union doesn't like us; //

Can't imagine why that would be

You don't suppose it might be anything to do with our history of trying to sabbotage it and saying we want the benefits of membership without paying for them?

Or is that just crazy talk?

[Baldric]

I got shot keeping one of those places British,
giving them up is not an option imo!

[jake-the-peg]

Here you go

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23668589

Looks like we're going to have the Spanish up in court with the EU which is exactly the right course of action.

They are restricting movement of people and trade through the border between 2 member states which is a fundamental breech of a number of core EU treaties.

[Gromit]

ECHR a Liberal cause? Shome Mishtake Shurely.

Written by a Conservative, promoted by Churchill who was our first signatory to it.

I would be very proud if Human Rights were a left wing invention, but they are not.

[ToraToraTora]

No one says it in as many words jake but they always take the side of Spain/Argentina. I'd just like to understand how it would work in practice.

[ToraToraTora]

Do you really the the European court will find in Britains Favour? Even if it does, how will that decision be enforced?

[ichkeria]

ABLW? Here's yet another one who is on Britain's side in this dispute. And that would be the case even if it wasn't a left wing Gibraltar govt v a right wing Spanish one :-)

[mikey4444]

The connection between Gib and the Falklands isn't just because they are both British Overseas Territories.

Is also because they both wish to remain so. I am most definitely a left winger but I most certainly do not wish the status of these places to change until a majority of the residents want it to happen. That is democracy in action.

[ToraToraTora]

who said the ECHR is a Liberal cause Gromit? another leap of illogic!

[youngmafbog]

TTT, Gromit has it right though the EHCR does seem to support right-on liberal views!

I appreciate your point though, many hand wringers think we should give back the territories against the wishes of the people living there. They do seem to put their right-on ideologies before the rights of these islanders, probably because they consider them colonialist.

[Zeuhl]

/No one says it in as many words jake but they always take the side of Spain/Argentina. /

I can't recall any ABer of any stature doing that

regardless of their supposed Left-Right orientation

Tora: I think that's just a figment of your fevered imagination

you do realise don't you that opposing other people and arguments that you have just made-up is not that clever don't you?

[Zeuhl]

/many hand wringers think we should give back the territories against the wishes of the people living there. /

evidence, examples or links ymb?

most 'hand wringers' tend to side with the rights of an indigenous population in these cases the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

a generalisation i know, but it tends to be the right-whingers who are more prepared to waive such things in favour of authoritarian regimes or the concerns of big business

[FredPuli43]

Tora, do you mean the ECHR? Apparently you do. What has the ECHR to do with it? The cases wouldn't fall within its remit.

[LazyGun]

@3T You have made this assertion before, 3T - that those ABers who self-identify as left of centre or liberal are somehow anti-British. You have wrapped yourself in the flag before, asserting that to be left wing was somehow unpatriotic. It was wrong and odious then, it is wrong and odious now.

If you are going to make such claims, you are going to have to offer evidence to support it, or we can just call it for what it is- ***.

And it is worth pointing out that the UK has had conversations with Argentina before the Falklands War over sharing or even giving up sovereignty, much like we have with Spain over shared sovereignty over Gibralter. Such moves are not unprecedented - we did the same over HK with the Chinese.

[Just-Jude]

Spain has sold fighter planes to Argentina, they can be equipped with nuclear missiles. A two pronged attack against the UK could be in the offing.

[modeller]

LG I think HK was only a 100year lease so we had to get out. Gib and the Falklands are ours. Gib was signed over to us for ever.
The Argentinians never had any settlement in the Falklands . In fact Argentina didn't even exist at the time we settled there. What is now Argentina was governed by Spain.

What is more southern Argentina , Patagonia, was settled by the Welsh and even speak Welsh today. So the Welsh could claim sovereignty over that part of the country on the basis of settlement. :o)

Geologically both Agentina and Africa claim its a part of their land mass.

[Gromit]

Ha ha. Spain arming Argentina.

The Mirage F1 is a 50 year old design. The Spanish bought theirs in the 1980s and are now decommissioning them and flogging the 20 clapped out planes to Argentina. Neither Spain or Argentina have any Nuclear weapons, but the F1 doesn't carry them anyway. The British Typhoons can out pace and out manoeuvre and out class the Mirages. They are nothing to worry about.