Egypt Declares National Emergency

[naomi24]

Appalling scenes on tonight's news. Among the huge numbers of dead, a Sky TV cameraman. Poor Egypt. What is its future?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23700663

[emmie]

we are not talking of us, we are discussing the Egyptians.

[FredPuli43]

Yes, emmie , we did notice that!

[chrisgel]

AOG - I really don't think that the situation in Egypt is comparable to the situation here.
If we don't get the party we want in power what is the worst thing likely to happen. Maybe an A&E ward will close here or there or maybe a library.
Either way it's not going to be a major life change for most of us.

If the Muslim Brotherhood retained power the Egyptians would have been stuck with an extremely oppressive regime for the foreseeable future.
They need to tackle it now, if they left things as they were do you really think they would have ever have had the chance to overturn the results in some future election?

[naomi24]

Absolutely right Chris. This is about far more than the economy.

[LazyGun]

Its a cesspit of a situation, no question. The scenes of the protesters camps burning, the death toll, and military curfew are all things out of some nightmare. To think they went through all that trouble to oust one dictator, Mubarak, only to end up with an even more oppressive and bloody repression - from the very people, the army, who were regarded as heroes during the protests first against Mubarak, and then against Morsi.

Interesting the USAs response too. Dithering over to call it for what it was, a military coup, because to call it such would automatically end their billion dollars worth of "aid" to the Egyptian Army. This kind of response from the home of the brave and the land of the free.

So what happens now? Do you allow the MB to field candidates for the next election? What happens if they are elected again? The Army appear to be planning not to allow the MB to run, but that is not any kind of democracy.No question that Morsi brought a lot of this on himself and the Brotherhood, but, regardless of how we might feel about the excesses of the MB, should we really be sanguine about seeing democracy stifled in this manner?

I watched a well-educated young egyptian man arguing passionately that he was for those in Egypt that were anti-Army AND Anti-Morsi - they want a secular democracy, free of military control, and free of theocractic considerations - but I fear they will not see that any time soon.

[anotheoldgit]

chrisgel

/// AOG - I really don't think that the situation in Egypt is comparable to the situation here. ///

/// If we don't get the party we want in power what is the worst thing likely to happen. Maybe an A&E ward will close here or there or maybe a library.
Either way it's not going to be a major life change for most of us. ///

Perhaps that is the situation now but who can say what is in the future?

/// If the Muslim Brotherhood retained power the Egyptians would have been stuck with an extremely oppressive regime for the foreseeable future.
They need to tackle it now, if they left things as they were do you really think they would have ever have had the chance to overturn the results in some future election? ///

Well it seems obvious that a very large proportion of the Egyptians want who and what they voted for, or why else do you think that they are fighting to keep what they voted for?

The other side of the coin is the fact that this is nothing more than an attempted a military coup, with the generals wanting to install a military dictator.

[chrisgel]

AOG - //Well it seems obvious that a very large proportion of the Egyptians want who and what they voted for, or why else do you think that they are fighting to keep what they voted for? //

The large proportion you refer to was 37.5% of the people who voted.
You seem to think that democracy is perfect and that numbers should be the final arbiter but this is not always the case.
I have used the analogy before of 2 lions and a goat voting for who is to be dinner. It is apt in this case I think.
The outcome of this election for the remaining 62.5% of the voters is obviously too much for them to contemplate.

[anotheoldgit]

chrisgel

/// The large proportion you refer to was 37.5% of the people who voted. ///

I don't know where you got your figure from, but I got this from a BBC report at the time of Mohammed Mursi's victory, which incidentally makes for interesting reading, taking into account today's present situation in Egypt.

*** The Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Mursi has been declared the winner of Egypt's presidential election run-off. ***

*** He won 51.73% of the vote, beating former PM Ahmed Shafiq, the Higher Presidential Election Commission ***

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18571580

[chrisgel]

AOG - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_parliamentary_election,_2011%E2%80%932012

Either way 51.73% isn't a large majority in any ones terms.

[chrisgel]

And from your article "The turnout in last weekend voting was 51.58%, he added."

[anotheoldgit]

chrisgel

/// Either way 51.73% isn't a large majority in any ones terms. ///

Granted, I was swayed by the huge jubilant crowds, but it was still more than 37.5% that you quoted.

Taken from your link

Searts won 235 against 123

[chrisgel]

AOG - As you seem to be trying to prove a point that is opaque to me I shall let you have your way. It is of no consequence to me or, I suspect, the Egyptian people, who are now involved in what appears to be a civil war.
I understand why it's happening and neither your thoughts or mine on the subject will affect it one way or the other.

[jno]

curious how much righteous anger is aroused by this unpleasant dictatorship - when the preceding unplesant dictatorship aroused none at all (except among Egyptians, of course) and was actively supported by the West - because it was seen as a bulwark against religious extremism, just as the West previously supported dictatorships for no better reason than that they weren't communist.

It's only religious dictators who upset us, it seems, even when their repression simply feeds the ideologies we dislike. So Egypt fell into the hands of fundamentalists, as South Vietnam fell into the hands of communists. Perhaps we could consider our own role in all this? Or perhaps it's just easier to blame wicked people elsewhere.

[youngmafbog]

According to news reports American bullets were fired.

One can have a pretty good guess at what is being preached in the Mosques today.

The Middle East has always been a problem and whilst Islamic fundamentalism has a hold, always will.

Really difficult to see how this will pan out for the Egyptians, Pro or anti Morsi.

[naomi24]

jno, yes, I suppose opposition to this regime could be said to be righteous. You see, apart from anything else, it’s the little things really – you know – those minor things that don’t affect us - like the Brotherhood’s intention of decriminalizing FGM - that upset me. There are bad regimes – and there are even worse regimes – and Mr Morsi’s regime falls very firmly into the latter category.

[jno]

my point is that Mubarak's regime ensured that the Brotherhood was the only possible alternative to it, and by supporting Mubarak, we ensured it too.

[naomi24]

jno, so what do you suggest we should have done in order to prevent the only alternative being the Muslim Brotherhood?