Could Hiring Too Many Foreign Doctors 'puts Lives At Risk'?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394034/Hiring-foreign-doctors-puts-lives-risk-Senior-surgeon-criticises-poor-language-skills-lack-training.html

Much has been said in defence of mass immigration in this country, when one criticises the problem of mass immigration, the usual cry that comes up is "how could our NHS survive without immigration?

Well here is the other side of the coin, whereas many immigrant doctors and nurses do sterling work, there are many who are obviously bringing the NHS down, perhaps the regular stories one hears of problem hospitals up and down the country, the influx of foreign medical staff could be one reason?

[youngmafbog]

Not if they had to pass an English test first, quite a strict one involving medical terms.

My problem with mass immigration to the NHS is that these doctors/Nurses often come from poor countries who can ill afford to train doctors so the NHS can pinch them. But that is what is happening.

[jim360]

If the foreign doctors are either poor-quality, or have poor language skills, then yes, hiring too many foreign doctors can put lives at risk.

[IggyB]

I would suggest that there is only such a big market for foreign staff because there are not enough British trained doctors to cope with demand (I am yet to meet a doctor who is struggling to find work). There is obviously a significant delay in training new medical staff but the govt should invest in that to meet future demand

[Octavius]

If any doctor can grapple with my innards and save my life if its needed, then I wouldn't worry much about their received pronunciation. I'd rather that than no doctor.

[wolf63]

I have been treated by foreign doctors a couple of times in hospital. Their English was terrible and difficult to understand. When someone is ill and perhaps scared communication of the highest quality is essential.

If they speak English and have all the relevant qualifications and experience then they would be welcome.

The NHS needs to ensure that their recruitment procedures are followed.

One of the Vets in my practice is German but her English is faultless. There is only a tiny hint of an accent and she communicates brilliantly.

The NHS is overworked and underfunded ~ but I am not sure what the solution is.

[jno]

how many is too many? It's not as if local doctors are being put out of work by newcomers, is it? The good news is we may soon have too many of them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9177635/Glut-of-NHS-doctors-by-2020-report-warns.html

Shame there will somehow not be enough jobs for them - I find that rather hard to believe, since it takes me a week to see my GP.

[Gromit]

Possibly.

And not having enough doctors would also put lives at risk.

If I were ill, personally, I would sooner see a doctor who was foreign, than no doctor at all.

We could improve the service for everyone who is not Xenophobic by letting people with a phobia of dark skin sign a form that they opt of seeing a doctor if only a foreign one was available.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// If I were ill, personally, I would sooner see a doctor who was foreign, than no doctor at all. ///

You are stating something that is obvious to everyone, but that is not the point of my post, the point is the fact that a large number of them are not trained to our high standards, some have even been known to forge their qualifications, and many mistakes are made due to their lack of communication from someone that does not speak fluent English.

/// We could improve the service for everyone who is not Xenophobic by letting people with a phobia of dark skin sign a form that they opt of seeing a doctor if only a foreign one was available. ///

That is just a rubbish and offensive dig so as to bring an accusation of racism into the discussion, and not at least a bit funny.

[jno]

perhaps we could arrange it so that the ones who've forged their qualifications are only allowed to treat illegal immigrants?

[Gromit]

British doctors would be employed in preference to foreign ones if they were available. They are not. Which is why we are employing the poorly trained ones.

[Baldric]

I had an appointment at a local Hospital a few weeks ago, Ophthalmic Outpatients (Eyes), the Consultant was Albanian, with a heavy accent (she was lovely). Examination was completed, with the odd misunderstanding, (obviously due to my not speaking Albanian).
I've just had a letter from my Doctor asking where/when I had my Heart-attack, as it's not on their records (I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE!), as the follow up letter from consultant to GP said that I had.
Doctor is now having to get it removed from my Medical History as it could have a bearing on any future treatment.

[lynbrown]

Some years ago my husband attended hospital as part of his treatment for cancer. He had a foreign doctor who was very hard to understand, luckily the nurse on duty was more used to him and was able to tell my husband what the doctor was saying. To those who say the would prefer a foreign doctor to no doctor at all, fair enough, except on those occasions where there is a need for verbal communication. This doctor told my husband to wait 6 months for a verdict, but after a while, his symptoms got worse and on investigation, it appears the doctor should have said 6 weeks! Luckily he survived and is well, but lack of English could have been a killer in this instance.

[jno]

not to mention your insurance, Baldric.

[Baldric]

I hadn't even thought of that jno, thanks!

Where a Heart-Attack came into an Eye exam I'm still unsure!

[Zeuhl]

^
Seems like you were quite taken with her baldric

Did you ask her if she had a cute angina?

[sandyRoe]

Of course it 'puts lives at risk'. The people in their homeland are deprived of the services that they, as doctor, could provide.

[Sqad]

sandy

\\\\\Of course it 'puts lives at risk'. The people in their homeland are deprived of the services that they, as doctor, could provide.\\\\

I am not so sure that you are correct..........imagine that you are a foreign doctor say from Estonia or Greece and that you cannot get work, either you are poorly qualified or there are no jobs available OR in certain circumstances, you have been struck off in your own country.

NOW...I know a place where the salaries are over £100,000 per annum, no competition, guaranteed for life, fabulous pension plan, 6 weeks a year holiday, no night calls, no weekend duty..........a "pot of Gold"......"Come on lads, fillyer boots".

Where is that country?.......the UK of course. Can you blame them?

At the same time there is a surge of British trained doctors who are emigrating to New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the USA and recent studies have shown that 90% say that they will not return to the UK because their quality of life in their chosen country is better.

BUT, more importantly, in that article, Dr Jones has said that general practice has lagged well behind the development in modern medicine and subsequently the standard has fallen.

I agree.

[FredPuli43]

Yes, why bring race into it?

My Latvian plumber has very poor English, his accent is so peculiar that, on the phone, I thought his first language was Urdu, and employing him requires a bit of pointing, but he does the jobs perfectly well. That's fine with house plumbing, but on my own interior plumbing, I had have doubts about a doctor who needed that much assistance. The room for error and misunderstanding is obvious.

How strict is the language test that foreign doctors take? It may well not be hard enough.

[LazyGun]

This is the GMC English Language requirements. The quandary, one that needs some proper sorting out, is that they can impose a pretty high barrier for english comprehension and communication for doctors outside of the EU. Its those doctors coming from within the EU that present a problem.
http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registration_applications/language_proficiency.asp


This problem has been recognised; The Govt plans to amend the medical act, and new legislation should be enacted sometime early next year which means that doctors coming to the UK from within the EU have to meet the same standards of english communication and comprehension.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/publications/21129.asp

Its long been a recognised problem. That tragic case of Dr. Urbani (?) was all the more tragic because his english was assessed by a registered assessor working for the private company running the out of hours GP service for areas of Cambridge. This assessor expressed reservations about his level of english comprehension, and if memory serves, also expressed reservations about his technical ability to perform the work of a locum GP, but these recommendations it seems were ignored.