Must Unveil In Court?

[mushroom25]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10261550/Muslim-woman-must-remove-burka-in-court-judge-insists.html

a sound legal principle? Or is the learned judge just exposing his prejudices?

[FredPuli43]

That's why I said legally or contractually hc. She presumably cannot insist that, if the police stop her and demand to see her licence to show, for example, that she is the same person to whom the car is registered, or for any other reason, she can only show it to a woman . And if she hires a car, that she can only produce her licence to a woman, or if she boards a plane or checks in, only a woman can see the documents.

[Peter Pedant]

I think she is the accused.

and what of theft - would she agree that if convicted, her hand should chopped off

now that would show faith above what is normally demanded

[hc4361]

An acquaintance of mine who wears the burka was stopped by the police when she was driving - two police men. She had her photo driving licence with her but refused to show her face.

She soon changed her mind when they told her she would have to go the police station with them in the police car and wait for a female officer.

[Bazile]

So what is the reason in their religion that prevents them from showing their faces to men ?

[Zeuhl]

/ if the police stop her and demand to see her licence ...she can only show it to a woman /

No fred

two different issues

she can show her photograph/licence/passport to a man

but that is rather pointless, because the police for example, will want to satisfy themselves that she is the person in the photograph by seeing her face

[Zeuhl]

/So what is the reason in their religion that prevents them from showing their faces to men ? /

It's not

It's an interpretation based on arab culture

Muslims in South East Asia don't cover their faces - many don't cover their hair

[chrisgel]

She is not being truthful when she says her religion demands it.

"According to Islam, a woman of faith is required to practice modesty in conduct and dress. This includes the tradition of hijab, or clothing that can cover the arms, torso and legs but is most frequently associated with headscarves. However, Islam does not require the wearing of a face-covering veil, nor does it prescribe women to wear a burqa, which actually has its origins in Bedouin tradition."

[hc4361]

Bazile, modesty and ownership. The only men who can look at her face is her husband and relatives.
Because, naturally, no man can stop themselves having lustful thoughts every time they see a woman's face.

[Zeuhl]

/no man can stop themselves having lustful thoughts every time they see a woman's face. /

If you've spent months in the desert with only the camels for company that may well be true

[Bazile]

So a man will only have lustful thoughts , if he sees her face ?

Further , even if a man has lustful thouhts after seeing her face - what difference should it make to the female anyway - she is not engaging in anything ' wrong '

[hc4361]

But there is an allure to just being able to see a woman's eyes, don't you think?
:)

[chrisgel]

/no man can stop themselves having lustful thoughts every time they see a woman's face. /

They must be worn out living in this country then, Bless!

[hc4361]

Bazile, in some Arab countries a woman will never report a brutal rape, for she will be punished for having sex with a man she is not married to.

It is her fault.

[Bazile]

My point is that a man can have lustful thoughts by just looking at a woman's figure , without seeing her face .

So wearing the burka is pointles , isn't it ?

[hc4361]

You must have x ray eyes if you can see a figure under a burka.

[hc4361]

Many Muslim women living in Muslim countries don't wear a burkha or a veil.
Some wear a headscarf, other's don't.

There are as many flavours of Islam as there are of Christianity.

[bert_h]

If the reason behind the burqa really is that //no man can stop themselves having lustful thoughts every time they see a woman's face//, that means the burqa is more degrading of men, by its implication, than it is of women.

[hc4361]

That is my opinion, too, bert. It is very insulting to men but I think 'ownership' is one of the key reasons. She belongs to her husband and only he can see her beauty.

[naomi24]

//However, Islam does not require the wearing of a face-covering veil, nor does it prescribe women to wear a burqa, which actually has its origins in Bedouin tradition."//

Depending upon how strictly Muslims observe their religious writings, Islam does require women to cover themselves almost completely. I'm away from home at the moment so don't have access to all my books, but this should suffice.

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[hc4361]

Just as the Bible makes statements that are ignored by Christians and is interpreted differently between different branches of Christianity, the same is true of the Koran and Muslims.

If that were not the case there be only one type of Muslim and not Sunni, Shiite, Wahhabi, Sufi (Dervish).

Some Muslims believe Muta is permitted, others believe no form of prostitution is allowed. Muta still goes on in some Muslim countries and there are many prostitutes in Saudi.

naomi, I interpret 'cloak' as a sleeveless coat, a body covering, not a veil.