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Is The General Public Sick And Tired Of Conflict Abroad?
Our parliament voted ‘no’ to intervention in Syria, Obama has now decided to put the USA’s intervention to the vote of congress, and I’m now wondering what would happen if we simply withdrew completely and permanently from all these pockets of hopeless and seemingly endless turmoil and left the whole lot to sort themselves out – or not?
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strange how when the usa supply stuff being used they looked the other way
from wiki
Amnesty International said a fact-finding team found "indisputable evidence of the widespread use of white phosphorus" in crowded civilian residential areas of Gaza City and elsewhere in the territory. Donatella Rovera, the head of an Amnesty fact-finding mission to southern Israel and Gaza, said: "Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the USA to carry out serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes
from wiki
Amnesty International said a fact-finding team found "indisputable evidence of the widespread use of white phosphorus" in crowded civilian residential areas of Gaza City and elsewhere in the territory. Donatella Rovera, the head of an Amnesty fact-finding mission to southern Israel and Gaza, said: "Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the USA to carry out serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes
What is somewhat mystifying about the Syria business (and indeed all the other shambolic and often tragic goings-on in the Middle East) is just where are the other members of the so-called “Arab League” in all of this. Surely it should be in their interests to see stability among their neighbours. But what do we hear from them - precisely nothing, nil, zero, zilch.
Instead it is left to western nations (for which generally read the USA and the UK) to try to sort out one mess after another. Yes the events of the recent couple of weeks are tragic, but I’m of the opinion that they will never be resolved and certainly will not be improved by outsiders bombing the living daylights out of them (and subsequently having to pay billions to effect repairs). I’m hoping that the recent vote in the H of C marks the beginning of our interference in these lost causes and a general shift in the UK’s foreign policy.
Instead it is left to western nations (for which generally read the USA and the UK) to try to sort out one mess after another. Yes the events of the recent couple of weeks are tragic, but I’m of the opinion that they will never be resolved and certainly will not be improved by outsiders bombing the living daylights out of them (and subsequently having to pay billions to effect repairs). I’m hoping that the recent vote in the H of C marks the beginning of our interference in these lost causes and a general shift in the UK’s foreign policy.
Don't be mistaken in thinking governments get involved in others' conflicts for benevolent reasons - it is all to do with money, trading relationships and commodities.
We are the 6th largest weapons exporter in the world - we make a lot of money out of overseas conflicts. Not only that but we are dependent on other countries for essential commodities such as oil. If we are seen to take the 'wrong' side our commodities could be restricted or cut off either by the offended country or their allies.
If we are seen to take no sides and not get involved once again our commodities could be restricted and relations between other countries severely strained.
It's all way too complicated for me but thankfully I'm not the one making these decisions.
We are the 6th largest weapons exporter in the world - we make a lot of money out of overseas conflicts. Not only that but we are dependent on other countries for essential commodities such as oil. If we are seen to take the 'wrong' side our commodities could be restricted or cut off either by the offended country or their allies.
If we are seen to take no sides and not get involved once again our commodities could be restricted and relations between other countries severely strained.
It's all way too complicated for me but thankfully I'm not the one making these decisions.
Of course, it was actually the UK government which was trying to get the US interested in intervention of some sort in Syria all the way until recently.
And arguably the British decision to hold a vote may have influenced the US also.
As for being sick and tired of conflict abroad I'd have thought that went without saying. Obama acknowledged that fact for his own people but significantly also did not offer that as an excuse. We're sick, but not as sick as some :-) We're tired but not as weary as some.
(What were the war crimes that were caused by the alleged use of the white phosphorus, as a matter of interest)
I agree about the hypocrisy by the way. It is widespread. President Putin also complains about violations of international law too, but like the US is not concerned about violations of International law by certain countries, least of all his own of course.
And arguably the British decision to hold a vote may have influenced the US also.
As for being sick and tired of conflict abroad I'd have thought that went without saying. Obama acknowledged that fact for his own people but significantly also did not offer that as an excuse. We're sick, but not as sick as some :-) We're tired but not as weary as some.
(What were the war crimes that were caused by the alleged use of the white phosphorus, as a matter of interest)
I agree about the hypocrisy by the way. It is widespread. President Putin also complains about violations of international law too, but like the US is not concerned about violations of International law by certain countries, least of all his own of course.
"Just where are the other members of the so-called “Arab League” in all of this. Surely it should be in their interests to see stability among their neighbours."
We do hear from the Arab League, but what tends to happen with them is they tend, rightly or wrongly, to give their support clandestinely. The reason for that is that many of these countries are nervous about upsetting their people.
So Qatar and Saudi Arabia for example have been backing the rebels with monney and arms, but will probably not come out and say publicly that they support any US action. But you can be sure that they do.
"And arguably the British decision to hold a vote may have influenced the US also. "
Since confirmed, interestingly enough.
We do hear from the Arab League, but what tends to happen with them is they tend, rightly or wrongly, to give their support clandestinely. The reason for that is that many of these countries are nervous about upsetting their people.
So Qatar and Saudi Arabia for example have been backing the rebels with monney and arms, but will probably not come out and say publicly that they support any US action. But you can be sure that they do.
"And arguably the British decision to hold a vote may have influenced the US also. "
Since confirmed, interestingly enough.
We will be tacitly involved in all Middle Eastern politics as long as our industry depends on oil.
I am old enough to remember what happened in the UK when the OPEC countries massively increased the price of a barrel of crude oil.
It is in our best interests (financially) to secure stability in the Middle East.
I am old enough to remember what happened in the UK when the OPEC countries massively increased the price of a barrel of crude oil.
It is in our best interests (financially) to secure stability in the Middle East.
I can tell you what would have happened in Bosnia. Milocovic, Mladic, Karadžić, and all the other butchers of the Balkans would have continued murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people, just like they did at Srebrenica.
Just in case anybody has forgotten what happened at Srebrenica :::
http://
Just in case anybody has forgotten what happened at Srebrenica :::
http://
// withdrew completely and permanently from all these pockets of hopeless and seemingly endless turmoil //
I can see where you are coming from and agree with you 80%.
But do you include Israel in that statement. Israel only survives because of the $billions pumped in from the USA and our support vetoing anything bad.
I can see where you are coming from and agree with you 80%.
But do you include Israel in that statement. Israel only survives because of the $billions pumped in from the USA and our support vetoing anything bad.
I hate to say that but I don’t think it would stop now. Let me start by saying that there is enough food, water, oil, and other resources to benefit all of the population present and in the centuries to come but still few people and countries have done and are trying their best to occupy whatever they can and most importantly as much as they can.
For years, dictators have been installed and supported in that region by no one else but western countries to guard their own interests. Most of those dictators killed their own people with the help provided by the western countries and as a result turned their own people against themselves. And then in the end most of them were killed by their own people with the help of the same Western countries who were once their allies and supporters. A couple of them who tries not to bow in front of the Western countries and decided to guard interest of their own people instead of the interests of the Western countries were assassinated or killed politically. Zulfiqar Bhutto (ex Pakistani PM) and King Faisal of Saudi Arabia are two very well known in that regard.
Now why the conflict is? People of that region are fed up with double standards of Western counties and UNO .As just mentioned in this thread that same Western countries and UNO did nothing when Palestinian children were killed by White phosphorus, in fact same Western countries and UNO have done nothing for decades anywhere where Muslims have been killed. In fact media of the same Western countries does not show a single clip about what is happening right next door where an elected prime minister is in the jail only because he decided to open his border to allow some breathing space to the people living in the biggest prison in the world aka Ghaza.
Few Muslim countries and their leaders are to blame to but they do not have much of the choice as their body guards standing behind them are all CIA agents. Just like King Faisal was shot dead in his own house they would be shot too and then all of the wealth is in Western (mainly American) banks and their £10 cheque would not be honoured if they wish to decide not to follow the instruction.
In recent years Saudi Arabia is the biggest importer of the weapons (and we all know who the exporters are) in the world. A country, Saudi Arabia that does not have it’s own army. So where the weapons are going? And who is using them?
Finally I hate to say that unfortunately this will all end with a lot of bloodshed. For a very simple reason. Leaders in that region are in shackles they can’t break free because if they try then they end up either being killed or by being dumped in the prison (like Muhammad Morsi), people want them to break free, but countries controlling them are not willing to let THEM GO AND MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS. When I say MIND THEIR OWN business, I mean mind their own business in known and most importantly unknown matters to the general public. I would not be surprised if these crisis would take us to 3rd world war.
For years, dictators have been installed and supported in that region by no one else but western countries to guard their own interests. Most of those dictators killed their own people with the help provided by the western countries and as a result turned their own people against themselves. And then in the end most of them were killed by their own people with the help of the same Western countries who were once their allies and supporters. A couple of them who tries not to bow in front of the Western countries and decided to guard interest of their own people instead of the interests of the Western countries were assassinated or killed politically. Zulfiqar Bhutto (ex Pakistani PM) and King Faisal of Saudi Arabia are two very well known in that regard.
Now why the conflict is? People of that region are fed up with double standards of Western counties and UNO .As just mentioned in this thread that same Western countries and UNO did nothing when Palestinian children were killed by White phosphorus, in fact same Western countries and UNO have done nothing for decades anywhere where Muslims have been killed. In fact media of the same Western countries does not show a single clip about what is happening right next door where an elected prime minister is in the jail only because he decided to open his border to allow some breathing space to the people living in the biggest prison in the world aka Ghaza.
Few Muslim countries and their leaders are to blame to but they do not have much of the choice as their body guards standing behind them are all CIA agents. Just like King Faisal was shot dead in his own house they would be shot too and then all of the wealth is in Western (mainly American) banks and their £10 cheque would not be honoured if they wish to decide not to follow the instruction.
In recent years Saudi Arabia is the biggest importer of the weapons (and we all know who the exporters are) in the world. A country, Saudi Arabia that does not have it’s own army. So where the weapons are going? And who is using them?
Finally I hate to say that unfortunately this will all end with a lot of bloodshed. For a very simple reason. Leaders in that region are in shackles they can’t break free because if they try then they end up either being killed or by being dumped in the prison (like Muhammad Morsi), people want them to break free, but countries controlling them are not willing to let THEM GO AND MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS. When I say MIND THEIR OWN business, I mean mind their own business in known and most importantly unknown matters to the general public. I would not be surprised if these crisis would take us to 3rd world war.
keyplus, yes, I agree, much turmoil in the Middle East (and other regions) has been sparked by the West supporting corrupt and vicious rulers, in their own interests rather than those of the people who live there. That's a short-term or at best medium-term policy, and it's been falling apart recently.
As an obvious example, Iraq didn't even exist until Britain invented it.
As an obvious example, Iraq didn't even exist until Britain invented it.
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