Does This Now Mean That Police Officers Will Now Think Twice Before Daring To Stop Black Motorists?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455553/Stephen-Lawrences-brother-Stuart-WAS-picked-Met-Police.html

It is reported that Mr Lawrence has been stopped on 25 occasions in 19 years, which isn't all that excessive in my opinion, especially when one takes into consideration that According to the IPCC report, 74 per cent of the police driver’s stops between September 2012 and March 2013 were on Afro-Caribbean people.

But then even those figures can be a little deceptive, especially if the patrol stoppages were carried out in a predominate black area.

No this seems to be a case where a high profile figure is using his position to attack the police, and the authorities have taken the decision to discipline just one sole police officer, in their attempt to be seen as having taken some action.

/// More than 20 other, unrelated allegations of racial discrimination – made against the Met by Mr Lawrence - were rejected by the IPCC. ///

[anotheoldgit]

THECORBYLOON

/// ANOTHEOLDGIT, the Met Police DO have a specific area and it is '620 square miles [with] a population of 7.2 million.' ///

That may well be but the police officer in question obviously doesn't patrol the whole 620 Sq mile, he has his own particular patch to patrol, which happens to be a black area.

[mikey4444]

To be stopped 20 times in 19 years seems like excessive in my book ! Presumably most of these occasions were within a reasonably small area...not in The Highlands for instance.

As this chap is related to the most famous black teenager in Britain, I would have thought the Police might just be guilty of a lack of tact, at the very least, if not complete stupidity.

[FredPuli43]

Interesting to know , if the report is of a white man committing a crime, whether the police stop lots of white men on the off chance that one might be the offender.

And what are the police powers to stop anyone driving when they have not apparently committed a traffic offence? Obviously they have a general power to direct traffic but that is not the question.

[jno]

according to the report, it seems the grounds for suspicion were "eye contact" between stopper and stoppee. This may be improper under some little-known 13th-century law about driving geese.

[mikey4444]

Even after all these years, the Met really don't seem to have learned any lessons whatsoever. Perhaps the officers concerned had Stephens brother "under observation"

I am waiting for the outcome of the Plebgate affair...seems to be dragging on a bit. They arrested lots of serving Policemen ages ago...not sure why we are still waiting for an outcome.

[FredPuli43]

Is it a proper suspicion that Mr Lawrence's experience is a common one for black people in his age group or generally, but he is uniquely positioned to make a fuss about it?

[mikey4444]

Fred. Black youths have been complaining about Stop and Search for as many years as I can remember. Anyway, considering how the Met acted over his brothers murder, who can blame Stuart if he is somewhat paranoiac ?

I am sure if I or you had been stopped by the Police so many times, for no good reason, we would be a bit miffed by now !

[THECORBYLOON]

Figures for Peckham, where Mr Lawrence lives, show 14.7% are black Caribbean and for the Borough of Southwalk it is 16%. Using the figures for Peckham, if 74% of those stopped were Afro-Caribbean, that is more than five times the rate it should be.

[mikey4444]

Steve.5...you have hit the nail firmly on the head !

[ABerrant]

"And what are the police powers to stop anyone driving when they have not apparently committed a traffic offence? Obviously they have a general power to direct traffic but that is not the question."

A uniformed constable may stop any individual vehicle at any time under S.163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. This section requires no suspicion of a criminal offence having been committed.

In relation to suspected criminal activity, if a constable wishes to stop all vehicles or certain vehicles selected by any criterion (i.e. a road check) then they must do so under the power granted by S.4 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (usually under the authority of a Superintendent or higher rank but may be self-authorised when a matter of urgency).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/163
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/4

[THECORBYLOON]

Whatever powers a police officer has, why did the one in question stop five times more Afro-Caribbean folk than the stats suggest he should have done??

[FredPuli43]

Mickey, that is my experience too; black youths have been complaining about stop and stop and search for as long as I can remember. That is 40 years, most of it in practice defending and prosecuting such people, inter alios in London It maybe that AOG and others can bring greater knowledge and experience to bear,particularly with regard to the Met and its areas, of course
Certainly some Met police officers showed in their conversation a lot of what we would now regard as overt racism, years ago but that was diminishing. Whether that affected their work or any such attitude prevails now is, perhaps ,debatable; it may be that some officers haven't yet got an understanding of their powers and/or the proper exercise of them

[Orderlimit]

"What would your reaction be at getting pulled in so many times. Blatant racism by a biggoted and racist organisation."

I have been stopped four times this year already by police, is that racism. More males are stop searched and arrested than females, is that racism, sexism maybe?

[THECORBYLOON]

If there are more male drivers than female drivers, should they not be stopped more often than female drivers? The important thing is are they in proportion to the number of men and the miles they travel?

[FredPuli43]

Well. "Mind how you go , sir" to orderlimit ! I have been stopped twice this year by police, once because my plates came up as cloned; the originals had been stolen; and once by the gendarmerie (such an exotic life !) as I was leaving Monaco; they were stopping all the cars they could on the basis that anyone leaving Monaco at midnight must be over the limit. This French policy is much like that of Essex police at Christmas, for anyone driving late in the evening. It must be authorised by some senior officer here.

But 4 times this year ? What reason, if any, did they give, OL?

[mikey4444]

Aberrant. What possible reason would a policeman have to continually stop the same person, over and over again, especially someone with such a high profile as Stephen Lawrence's brother ?

I would imagine that he didn't have 25 different cars over the 19 years, and car registration plates are extremely easy for Policemen to trace these days. A few moments talking into his radio would easily identify Stuart Lawrence.

A simple and transparent case of the Police making pillocks of themselves again it would see. They are their own worse enemy.

[New Judge]

Yes, TCL, 15.45% according to my figures (2001 census). However, add to that Black African (35.67%) and Other Black (3.58%) and you reach 55% “Black”. A different figure entirely (which has probably increased since 2001) and not unadjacent to the percentage of black males stopped.

Those who harp on about these figures (which are largely academic) should have a crack at policing areas such as Peckham. Speak to serving police officers there (as I have done in the past) and ask them how they think it best to prevent and detect crime there without stopping large numbers of the type of people who are responsible for the overwhelming majority of crime on their patch. Sitting in a comfortable office pontificating about "disproportionality" is all very well for politicians and senior police officers. Meanwhile people (including black people) are being shot and stabbed.

[Orderlimit]

All were declared as proactive routine stops Fred, due to time and location (early hours in rural residential/business locations), which were inconvenient but lawful and in the public's interest.

The stop search figures are inaccurate due to a bad practice necessary for front-line officers to try and reduce bureaucracy, and as a result, the only search forms that will definitely get submitted are the ones that involve groups of society that routinely complain.

[FredPuli43]

NJ, and how do the officers define the people who commit these types of crime? And what reasonable suspicion do they have, or give, for stopping and/or searching them ?"You are a young black male and we know that you all are well at it? "

Most burglaries, indeed most crimes, around here (Cambridge and Cambridgeshire) are committed by young white people. Do you think Cambridgeshire police adopt this practice and on that supposed basis? If so, there must be hundreds of young white people, including students, stopped in this way. I think we might have a complaint by now.