Hypothetically Speaking...

[Tritan]

So here is an interesting one for you. This is a hypothetical situation, and I would like to know peoples educated opinions.

Assume that all the terrorist suicide bombers that are bombing London are from South London (ie. South side of the river Thames). Now assume that they regularly make the journey over the river to the northern side and blow themselves up. Would you do what ever it takes to stop them coming over?

Would you accept the extreme measure of possibly building a wall along the Thames to prevent people from the South side coming over to the North side in a free and unregulated manner?

Now this is all hypothetical to the events that have taken place recently in London. However, Israel has been hit by suicide bombers for years and has taken action by building a wall/border to separate itself from the problem territories to try and bring extra security and stability to its citizens. I got the impression from the British media that this was completely unacceptable.

Now that the suicide bombers are in the UK's backyard, and the public have experienced first hand the fear and helplessness of having indiscriminate bombers 'among us', have opinions changed either way about Israel and her wall?

[rod]

South London a problem territory?

[Tritan]

Rod: not at all! It was just a hypothetical scenario. I work in South London.

[acw]

I have three words here (usual me though, I'll probably be back to expand):

CHECK POINT CHARLIE

(If you've ever been to the museum, or read anything about this, you'll understand what I mean!)

[georgit79]

you'd have to suspend the whole tube as well, if you wanted to stop people getting from south to north London. Seems I'm safe though- I live and work in North London!

[jno]

no.

[Tritan]

ACW: not too sure i understand your point in the sense that I am not clear about whether you appreciate the reason for building the wall, or are you still against such actions?

 

For those unfamiliar with Checkpoint Charlie, have a look at this (scroll down a little): http://www.jellesen.dk/webcrea/places/berlin/wall.html 

 

GEORGIT79: I see your point, building a wall for London wouldn't work, but as I said to Rod, it was a hypothetical scenario to help make a point.

[acw]

Of course I appreciate the reason for building the wall, both in Berlin and in your hypothetical answer.  Please please don't be the second person on here today to treat me like an idiot! :-(

My point is that if you build a wall, more people will die trying to cross the wall than would have been killed by terrorists anyway.  It's similar to the increased risk that former-tube users are subjecting themselves by trying to be "safe" and switching to cycling to work when more people die each year cycling around than getting the tube and being blown up by an evil terrorist. 

My point, again, is that walls like this cause more problems than they're worth. 

If I may offer a more helpful link....

http://www.mauer-museum.com/english/frame-index-mauer.html

I visited this museum in January this year.  A truly harrowing experience.  If London was turned into the Berlin of the 21st century, even if the reasons for doing it were different and the political circumstances not the same, I would be horrified and very saddened. 

[Tritan]

ACW: I apologise, certainly did not mean to imply that you are an idiot... far from it, I find your point of view very interesting - good link too.

But putting aside the London scenario, and looking at the situation in Israel (where at the peak of the suicide bombings, security forces were stopping 5-10 for every one that blew up) where many people have died, is a wall justified in your opinion?

[londondave]

Souff Laaandon needs a wall round it innit anyways cos its common ya na wha I'm saying. I don't no nuffink about no terrowist, I missed Trisha this morning innit cos my kid was sick on the remolt control ya na wha I mean

[woofgang]

In answer to your question, no

[woofgang]

PS lol londondave.

[acw]

Tritan - good then, let's not fall out! :-)

Give that in order to justify something, a sensible approach is to weigh up the costs and benefits, I would say that the potential costs (i.e., the "Berlin Effect" as I shall call it) outweight the benefits.

Argh - gotta go -am being asked to do stuff at work!!!  LOL

[mystress]

Tritan,

The wall in Israel may well be justified,but it sure as hell doesn't work!

[shaneystar]

Nothing like this "works".
It just breeds more hate and discontent..

[Tritan]

Mystress:  What makes you think it is not working? I'm not so sure. The number of suicide bombers successfully getting through and blowing themselves up has gone down.

Shaneystar: unfortuneately you are correct, but if that is the price for short/middle term security and stability until a better solution is found, i'll take it.

[cherrybomb]

If someone wants to build a wall, then I know a great big tunnel in Kent that needs bricking up.

We are no longer an island and that worries me especially with what's at the other end.

[acw]

Cherrybomb - they don't have a tunnel linking the USA to Europe and still a group of madmen flew planes into the Twin Towers.  We're not going to get invaded through the tunnel - honestly!  There are enough things in this life that could ruin the way we spend our short time on this planet, without concerning ourselves with the French!!! :-p

[Romeo]

Hypothetically, building a wall might keep South London terrorists out, but what if North London terrorists decided to have a go?  Building a wall to keep out foreign terrorists will not stop British-born or British-based terrorists. The 4 'successsful' bombers on the London Underground were from Leeds.

[Tritan]

Romeo: Yes, you are correct, but this question is not about the building of a wall in the UK. It's about me trying to find out what peoples opinions are about the building of a wall in Israel. Before the terrorist attacks on London, the impressions I got from the British press and media, was very negative toward the wall in Israel. But now that you have experienced what was almost a daily occurence in Israel, I was wondering if opinions had changed at all (ie. more understanding as to why it's being done?).