Why Gop

[Gromit]

The Republican Party has suddenly started to be referred to as the GOP. Until recently I had never heard the term. Anyone know why this is happening?

[jno]

Grand Old Party; it's a 19th century term, I think. It's just a phrase journalists use sometimes... I suppose people may be using it now to try and remind people it's not all Tea Party loonies, but that's just a wild guess.

[Gromit]

http://www.gop.com/

[jno]

there's a slight rabidity to that website, isn't there. The party's in something of a mess at the moment, having lost the battle to Obama over the budget and upsetting many of its centrist supporters, who have no wish at all to close the government down for lack of money. I don't think I've ever come across such shrillness from them before.

[FredPuli43]

It has been called the GOP by American newspapers for at least 40 years, and the title is old, anyway. The Americans haven't got a short headline-fitting name, like Tory, for it, so GOP has to do

[Gromit]

Fred,
I have followed the US Presidential elections for 40 years, and I do not recall having come across the GOP until recently.

I realise there is a bit of a schism in the Party at the moment. Could it be the "Grand Ole Party" is the real Republic Party to differentiate it from the Tea Party faction who are like its militant tendency?

[FredPuli43]

I don't think GOP means anything to British readers, so it would never be used much in our reports, but it suits American papers for the reason given.

That said, there has been a trend of late for some Republican politicians to say the Grand Old (or Ole) Party ( almost as often as they refer to God and to socialism!). That seems to be a tactic to remind followers that the Party is American in values, old established, patriotic, conservative etc etc

[Peter Pedant]

Grand Old Party - Gromit I dont think you could have been listening when you were doing History O level - it had been around for at least a hundred years. Soon you will say you never knew Alexander Hamilton was a Federalist.

Do they ever say Stateside to you or only Americans ?
Would you say Dear Old Blighty to a Reb' ?

I mentioned Anne and her Brother Charles to a damned Yank - I admit with an intention to confuse and was met with complete blank ignorance.

Could it be GOP by contemporary commentators because they dont really think it is 'Great' ?

[Clanad]

Additionally, you may not know that both Parties are represented by animals... The Democrats are often pictured as a mule (or donkey, depending on one's mind set) while the Republicans are represented as an elephant...

The history behind the choice of these animals is interesting but lengthy... one site capsulated it this way: "The origins of these political images lie in the mind of a German-born political cartoonist named Thomas Nast, whose drawings also helped create modern images of Uncle Sam and Santa Claus. Nast moved to New York City when he was six years old and displayed artistic ability at an early age. Because he grew up in New York's thriving society, he worked his political and social knowledge into his artwork.
Nast joined the staff of Harper's Weekly in 1862. By the time he left in 1886, he had not only stamped the elephant and donkey as political party symbols, he'd also become one of the most influential cartoonists in American history. By the time he used the donkey as a Democratic Party symbol, Nast was already a household name. He had ascended to fame with cartoons that depicted the battlefield horrors of the Civil War and helped bring down the Boss Tweed ring, a group of corrupt New York politicians..."

[jno]

I'm familiar with Nast's work, Clanad, but one thing I don't know: why a donkey and why an elephant? Were these meant to be satirical comments of some kind, or just easy-to-recognise animals?

This is Nast's Santa

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/nast-santa-claus-1890-granger.jpg

Before that I believe St Nicholas was usually depicted in a floor-length coat.

[FredPuli43]

now there's an idea Clanad . We should have animals for our parties, though I think donkey wouldn't be appropriate because our backbench MPs all act like donkeys already; braying at Question Times, always doing the leader's bidding when whipped....

Some on here may have suggestions.

But why the cartoonist pick those ? I've often wondered why those were chosen but never knew a cartoonist picked them. Elephants never forget but take two years' gestation to produce anything new, but donkeys ?

[Peter Pedant]

yeah I would be interested in the Donkey and why it was chosen

[Peter Pedant]

Low characterised Stanley Baldwin with a red blob of sealing wax on this face a motif which 'stuck' during the thirties

after Baldwin said something was so secret - my lips are sealed.
In fact it wasnt secret - just embarassing. Shades of 2013.

[LazyGun]

There is this, which purports to explain why Democrats are associated with a Donkey and the Republicans a nellyphant. Don't know how true it is, but it kind of sounds plausible, at least;

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0881985.html

[jno]

Democrats today say the donkey is smart and brave

Nice try.

[FredPuli43]

Reminiscent of the 'contemptible little army', an abusive description from , I think, the Kaiser. The old soldiers of it, ever after, proudly called themselves "the Old Contemptibles".. Jackson had similar thinking, turning an insult into something to be proud of.

[FredPuli43]

Presumably Democrats are not familiar with " Lions led by donkeys".

[Hypognosis]

@Fred

I think that phrase was exclusive to the British. Lions as in three lions.

The sentiment could have been shared by all front-line troops in all the armies involved but I would guess they'd each have their own equivalent expression.

[jno]

I think that was strictly a jibe aimed at the British generals. And it postdated the US party animals.

[pastafreak]

The term is certainly not recent....According to wiki-

The term "Grand Old Party" is a traditional nickname for the Republican Party, and the abbreviation "GOP" is a commonly used designation. The term originated in 1875 in the Congressional Record, referring to the party associated with the successful military defense of the Union as "this gallant old party"; the following year in an article in the Cincinnati Commercial, the term was modified to "grand old party". The first use of the abbreviation is dated 1884

[FredPuli43]

"Lions led by donkeys" first occurs in The Times, in the form "Lions led by packasses", in 1871, referring to the French troops defeated by the Prussians . In the present form, it has been attributed to Max Hoffmann (1869-1927), referring to British troops in the Great War, but no confirmation of this attribution has been found [Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, 7th Edition, page 535 at 12 ]

And "contemptible little army" comes from "Exterminate...the treacherous English, walk over General French's contemptible little army". This was said by Kaiser Willhelm II, "the Kaiser", in the Great War, as part of his war orders. Unfortunately, research reveals it to have been probably fabricated by the British.[Same source] Never mind, the troops believed he'd said it, so that's all that matters!