Am I Right To Be Feeling This Way?
Family Life3 mins ago
Good News For The Employees But Not For The Unions It Seems.
17 Answers
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Was this a victory for Ineos or for common sense?
/// After persuading 65 per cent of its members to reject an Ineos rescue plan, Mr McCluskey last night said Unite now 'embraced' those proposals in full. ///
/// His arrival was seen as a humiliation for Scottish Unite chief Pat Rafferty, who had led an aggressive campaign against Ineos, which the company claims has included directly picketing managers in their homes. ///
Was this a victory for Ineos or for common sense?
/// After persuading 65 per cent of its members to reject an Ineos rescue plan, Mr McCluskey last night said Unite now 'embraced' those proposals in full. ///
/// His arrival was seen as a humiliation for Scottish Unite chief Pat Rafferty, who had led an aggressive campaign against Ineos, which the company claims has included directly picketing managers in their homes. ///
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I think it depends on your views of management and unions.
The right-wing press will see it as a bashing for the union, and a climb-down, the left-wing press will see the union position as a pragmatic approach in a no-win situation.
I for one would hope this does not serve as a signal for any companies that they can force union agreement by simply refusing to keep a site open, which is not in the spirit of negotiation.
That said, it is hard to see this result as anything other than it appears - the union were told they could 'win', and loose 800 jobs, or compromise, and be seen as powerless in the face of the 'take-it-or-leave-it scenarion with which they were presented.
"Was this a victory for Ineos or for common sense?"
Vertainly not common sense - that concept has no place in this arena - it's down to the balance sheet bottom line - nothing else.
The right-wing press will see it as a bashing for the union, and a climb-down, the left-wing press will see the union position as a pragmatic approach in a no-win situation.
I for one would hope this does not serve as a signal for any companies that they can force union agreement by simply refusing to keep a site open, which is not in the spirit of negotiation.
That said, it is hard to see this result as anything other than it appears - the union were told they could 'win', and loose 800 jobs, or compromise, and be seen as powerless in the face of the 'take-it-or-leave-it scenarion with which they were presented.
"Was this a victory for Ineos or for common sense?"
Vertainly not common sense - that concept has no place in this arena - it's down to the balance sheet bottom line - nothing else.
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AOG - "Well I and all those 800 who's jobs were saved, would certainly class it as common sense."
I understand your point - it appears that there is a connection between the saving of the jobs and common sense on behalf of the unions and management.
My point is that, in fact common sense played no part in this decision. It was a simple hard-headed business by the company - we will close it and save money, no problem, or keep it open on our terms and make money - no problem.
But as I said, the decision is based on business, which is hard-headed and has no room for human emotional reaction or thought - that is not how the people who made these decisions got into a position where they have this level of power over a community.
I understand your point - it appears that there is a connection between the saving of the jobs and common sense on behalf of the unions and management.
My point is that, in fact common sense played no part in this decision. It was a simple hard-headed business by the company - we will close it and save money, no problem, or keep it open on our terms and make money - no problem.
But as I said, the decision is based on business, which is hard-headed and has no room for human emotional reaction or thought - that is not how the people who made these decisions got into a position where they have this level of power over a community.
Unite do not come out of this well, but neither do a lot of others. It is a pretty murky story
- The Strike was called after a Union official was suspended.
- He was accused of trying to rig the Labour party candidate selection in Falkirk.
- He was acquitted of that charge
- But the company suspended him, saying he worked on Union business at the plant
- The workers were to strike last week, but the company closed the plant first
- The company threaten not to reopen the plant if the Union and workforce do not agree to a survival plan
- Closure announced Wednesday
- Scottish Government give company £9million and UK Government loan them £125million
- Union agrees to survival plan.
I wonder if the £134 million of taxpayers money influenced all parties to this 1970s style mess?
- The Strike was called after a Union official was suspended.
- He was accused of trying to rig the Labour party candidate selection in Falkirk.
- He was acquitted of that charge
- But the company suspended him, saying he worked on Union business at the plant
- The workers were to strike last week, but the company closed the plant first
- The company threaten not to reopen the plant if the Union and workforce do not agree to a survival plan
- Closure announced Wednesday
- Scottish Government give company £9million and UK Government loan them £125million
- Union agrees to survival plan.
I wonder if the £134 million of taxpayers money influenced all parties to this 1970s style mess?
As a general principle I see unions as the enemy of employment, demanding ever more until ultimately the employer has had enough, purveying a devisive "use/them" mentatlity. However I am happy to say that Pat Rafferty has seen sense, rather than harking back to a time when gutless politicians of all hue, kow towed to the mighty anti jobs force that was the old unions, Mr rafferty has shown some common sense and saved his members jobs. Well done, credit where it is due.
This company, Ineos, was losing 1 million quid a week. They force the threat of closure, governments cave in and scramble, and now they are being offered subsidies and all the rest of it to the tune of millions.
The union were stupidly aggressive in forcing a strike ballot and in consequence have nothing to bargain with and have given up everything. But the management of this company ineffectual, if they are losing that much money.
No one comes out of this well at all, and it is a shame that ideology dictates seeing this in terms of winners and losers.
The union were stupidly aggressive in forcing a strike ballot and in consequence have nothing to bargain with and have given up everything. But the management of this company ineffectual, if they are losing that much money.
No one comes out of this well at all, and it is a shame that ideology dictates seeing this in terms of winners and losers.
Gromit, the plant was in a financial mess, so no doubt financial help will have played a part.
However, after my Unite union bashing post the other day, I would like to say I think it is very brave thing for the Union to do. They have shown common sense in this and I think overall will come out on top.
Just a shame it all came to this. Hopefully both sides will learn from it.
However, after my Unite union bashing post the other day, I would like to say I think it is very brave thing for the Union to do. They have shown common sense in this and I think overall will come out on top.
Just a shame it all came to this. Hopefully both sides will learn from it.
AOG - "Hate to go on Andy, but wasn't it common sense to admit defeat and so save those jobs?"
I see what you mean now - common sense in terms of the union response - then yes, I entirely agree, common sense did come to the fore here. I misunderstood, and thought you were taking the 'common sense' viewpoint from the company standpoint, which as i advised, i do not think finds much time in their thinking.
"By the way I did go back to that thread you directed me to and left my thanks."
I did see it - thank you very much. Must have been having a male menopause moment back then (!) - all passed now.
Have a great weekend.
I see what you mean now - common sense in terms of the union response - then yes, I entirely agree, common sense did come to the fore here. I misunderstood, and thought you were taking the 'common sense' viewpoint from the company standpoint, which as i advised, i do not think finds much time in their thinking.
"By the way I did go back to that thread you directed me to and left my thanks."
I did see it - thank you very much. Must have been having a male menopause moment back then (!) - all passed now.
Have a great weekend.
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