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Domino Effect?
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Clearly the public have lost all confidence in the EU but leaving aside our personal views on the subject, do you think a major nation leaving would precipitate a stampede for the exit? I mean If you where a net contributor, would you hang around if one of the few left?
Clearly the public have lost all confidence in the EU but leaving aside our personal views on the subject, do you think a major nation leaving would precipitate a stampede for the exit? I mean If you where a net contributor, would you hang around if one of the few left?
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Interesting thought Tora.
I agree entirely with those who argue that the EU that we joined initially is a very long way fromthe EU in which we find ourselves, and that extraction may well be an excellent idea.
The argument that Britain would be 'isloated' as a trade nation is utterly bogus - if the price is right, people will buy, regardless of the flag stamped on the box.
I agree entirely with those who argue that the EU that we joined initially is a very long way fromthe EU in which we find ourselves, and that extraction may well be an excellent idea.
The argument that Britain would be 'isloated' as a trade nation is utterly bogus - if the price is right, people will buy, regardless of the flag stamped on the box.
//The argument that Britain would be 'isloated' as a trade nation is utterly bogus //
Sorry Andy you're not seeing the whole picture here
Firstly the EU and US is in the final stages of negotiating a free trade area between the US and the EU (Canada has already completed)
When that happens it will be significantly cheaper for Americans to buy European products than products from outside the EU
Secondly 'Buying' doesn't just mean goods the UK is heavilly dependant in inbound investment - those investors are looking to have a European presence.
If you've worked with say American you'll know that they don't think of Britain, France and Germany seperately - they think 'Europe'. Getting that inward investment without the benefit of being in the EU is going to be a really tough sell
Sure you can set up your European car factory in London/Manchester/Birmingham - there's just a small matter of import duties on your exports to the mainland -Oh and everything else is different when you're dealing with the rest of Europe - OK?
It's not a case of 'the flag on the box' - it's very very real
Sorry Andy you're not seeing the whole picture here
Firstly the EU and US is in the final stages of negotiating a free trade area between the US and the EU (Canada has already completed)
When that happens it will be significantly cheaper for Americans to buy European products than products from outside the EU
Secondly 'Buying' doesn't just mean goods the UK is heavilly dependant in inbound investment - those investors are looking to have a European presence.
If you've worked with say American you'll know that they don't think of Britain, France and Germany seperately - they think 'Europe'. Getting that inward investment without the benefit of being in the EU is going to be a really tough sell
Sure you can set up your European car factory in London/Manchester/Birmingham - there's just a small matter of import duties on your exports to the mainland -Oh and everything else is different when you're dealing with the rest of Europe - OK?
It's not a case of 'the flag on the box' - it's very very real
Jake of course is correct but like all those trying sell a deal he omits the obvious. Britain will not be prevented from making trade deals, we just don't need to sign up to all the EU mad cap schemes and meddling. For example France/Germany and the US will want access to the UK market and as such will do free trade deals. We could call it the common market! hang on!
Dave knows he can not ever get a deal with Europe that would benefit the UK . If he did he would have been negotiating hard for the past 3 years. As it is he is stalling for time to get himself re-elected. He is banking on the fact Labour will not allow a referendom and Ed Balls played a major part in getting us into the last financial mess and flooding the country with E
I agree with the CBI...I think that we should stay in the EEC ::
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“Germany don't mind being a net contributor. It is their way of saying sorry for two world wars. “
Er..no it’s not. It was their way of making vast sums of cheap money available to the lesser nations which they must then spend on German goods and services. Now the excrement has hit the air conditioning. Greeks can no longer afford Porsche Cayennes and Italians and Portuguese have no money for new trains. And those indebted nations have been asked to pay back the cheap money they were loaned. Surprise, surprise - they cannot do so because they cannot do what weaker nations have traditionally done and devalue their way out of debt. Instead they must suffer continued "internal devaluation" (i.e. mass unemployment and ever lowering standards of living).
Something will happen to the EU in the not so distant future. It cannot continue in its current form and its crowning glory - the single currency - certainly cannot continue unreformed for too much longer. Whether that something develops into some sort of a domino effect remains to be seen.
The CBI has a somewhat different agenda to one that will benefit most people in the UK and their support for the undemocratic corrupt behemoth is somewhat understandable. Jake’s notion that the USA will not deal with or invest in individual nations if the EU breaks up is fanciful. The US (like most other nations apart from the UK) looks after its own interests and if it suits them to trade with individual nations it will. Abandoning the EU is somewhat akin to banning organised religion - it will produce short term chaos and unrest (though no more than will occur in some nations if matters continue as they are) but the long term benefits will be enormous.
Er..no it’s not. It was their way of making vast sums of cheap money available to the lesser nations which they must then spend on German goods and services. Now the excrement has hit the air conditioning. Greeks can no longer afford Porsche Cayennes and Italians and Portuguese have no money for new trains. And those indebted nations have been asked to pay back the cheap money they were loaned. Surprise, surprise - they cannot do so because they cannot do what weaker nations have traditionally done and devalue their way out of debt. Instead they must suffer continued "internal devaluation" (i.e. mass unemployment and ever lowering standards of living).
Something will happen to the EU in the not so distant future. It cannot continue in its current form and its crowning glory - the single currency - certainly cannot continue unreformed for too much longer. Whether that something develops into some sort of a domino effect remains to be seen.
The CBI has a somewhat different agenda to one that will benefit most people in the UK and their support for the undemocratic corrupt behemoth is somewhat understandable. Jake’s notion that the USA will not deal with or invest in individual nations if the EU breaks up is fanciful. The US (like most other nations apart from the UK) looks after its own interests and if it suits them to trade with individual nations it will. Abandoning the EU is somewhat akin to banning organised religion - it will produce short term chaos and unrest (though no more than will occur in some nations if matters continue as they are) but the long term benefits will be enormous.
"...how nice it must be for children to help each other, and to grow up in such an understanding and cooperative atmosphere. "
Nice it may be, but not conducive to efficient learning. Try visiting an inner city school (or indeed any where a multitude of tongues are spoken as primary languages) and see how nice it is. I have, and believe me whilst it may seem a jolly jape for the children it is absolutely outrageous to expect children to learn in such circumstances.
Nice it may be, but not conducive to efficient learning. Try visiting an inner city school (or indeed any where a multitude of tongues are spoken as primary languages) and see how nice it is. I have, and believe me whilst it may seem a jolly jape for the children it is absolutely outrageous to expect children to learn in such circumstances.
We should not underestimate the force for peace that the EU for its faults is in Europe. Nor underestimate the capacity of Europe to go to war again.
Nor the value of a united trade and even political entity to rival the Chinese and other emerging nations. The Russians detest the EU: a good enough reason on its own to think it must therefore be quite a good thing :-)
Nor the value of a united trade and even political entity to rival the Chinese and other emerging nations. The Russians detest the EU: a good enough reason on its own to think it must therefore be quite a good thing :-)
I agree New Judge. How much nicer it would be if all the white children were taught at one school, and all the black children were taught at another. And all the brown kids were taught at yet another school !
How is the next generation going to grow up free of the blind bigotry of some of our present generation, unless they learn to be tolerant of each other when they are young ? You only have to look to Northern Ireland to see how segregation has helped to establish a profoundly ignorant society, that continues the prejudice of their forefathers generations, into the 21st century.
How is the next generation going to grow up free of the blind bigotry of some of our present generation, unless they learn to be tolerant of each other when they are young ? You only have to look to Northern Ireland to see how segregation has helped to establish a profoundly ignorant society, that continues the prejudice of their forefathers generations, into the 21st century.
I’m not advocating segregation by race or colour, Mikey. What I’m saying is that your rose-tinted view of how nice it is that children speak so many languages and help each other belies the truth.
I have seen, at first hand, primary school teachers struggle to impart the simplest of principles to seven and eight year olds not because they cannot grasp the knowledge but because they simply cannot understand what is being said to them. I have seen classes of twenty five children being taught by one teacher but with six “teaching assistants” whose sole aim was simply to translate what is being said to them. This need for a ridiculous level of resources to be put into primary education is a direct result of unfettered immigration, much of it from the EU (whose second most important “achievement” was the free movement of people).
I’m not much fussed about the fate on non-English speakers and their children who settle in the UK and have no wish to see excessive amounts of cash being spent by the State education system trying to educate children who cannot speak English. It sucks huge amounts of resources out of the education system and is hampering tuition for those who do speak the native tongue of the UK.
It may seem a Utopian dream to see children muddling along together and helping each other understand what is going on. The reality is completely different and education - particularly primary education - is being completely overwhelmed in some parts of the country by the need to provide teaching to pupils who cannot speak even basic English. Nice it certainly ain’t.
I have seen, at first hand, primary school teachers struggle to impart the simplest of principles to seven and eight year olds not because they cannot grasp the knowledge but because they simply cannot understand what is being said to them. I have seen classes of twenty five children being taught by one teacher but with six “teaching assistants” whose sole aim was simply to translate what is being said to them. This need for a ridiculous level of resources to be put into primary education is a direct result of unfettered immigration, much of it from the EU (whose second most important “achievement” was the free movement of people).
I’m not much fussed about the fate on non-English speakers and their children who settle in the UK and have no wish to see excessive amounts of cash being spent by the State education system trying to educate children who cannot speak English. It sucks huge amounts of resources out of the education system and is hampering tuition for those who do speak the native tongue of the UK.
It may seem a Utopian dream to see children muddling along together and helping each other understand what is going on. The reality is completely different and education - particularly primary education - is being completely overwhelmed in some parts of the country by the need to provide teaching to pupils who cannot speak even basic English. Nice it certainly ain’t.
