Spy In The Bag - What's Your Take?

[jake-the-peg]

The Police have concluded that GCHQ code expert Garath Williams' death was 'probably an accident'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24927078

That he put a hold-all bag into a bath climbed into the bag himself and padlocked it from the inside.

This despite the coroner hearing expert testimony that a Yoga and escapology expert made 100 attempts to replicate the feat and failed

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2138338/Gareth-Williams-death-Coroner-refuses-rule-MI6-involvement.html

What do you think?

+ Foul play?
+ Strange fettish gone wrong?
+ Accident with 3rd party unknown?
+ Something else?

[pixie373]

From reading the two articles, my guess would be at least two other people present and that he was probably drugged and put in the bag. The family are upset that colleagues didn't notice he was missing for a week. Presumably, they didn't notice, either?

[grasscarp]

Foul play
Following an eight-day inquest last year, coroner Dr. Fiona Wilcox concluded that Williams was probably “unlawfully killed” in a criminal act, after experts found it impossible to climb into a similar bag and lock it unaided. She said his death most likely involved a third party and that he was either poisoned or suffocated.
Now if all she said was completely wrong, then this would be a suicide. If he wanted to kill himself why strip naked and padlock yourself into a bag inside a bath? It could not have been something he was doing to himself that went wrong, as what would he have been hoping to do at the moment of padlocking himself in?
To my mind if it wasnt suicide, or accidental then he was murdered.

[youngmafbog]

Very difficult to tell, especially not being at the court.

could well be Strange fetish + a 3rd party or simply foul play, it would not be the first time.

I guess we will never know.

[Baldric]

Brings this case to mind;
In February 1994, Auto eroticism. Conservative MP Stephen Milligan was found by his cleaner, laying on his kitchen table naked except for stockings and suspenders, with a bin bag on his head, electric flex round his neck and with a segment of an orange in his mouth. An inquest concluded that he had been engaged in erotic autoasphyxiation which had gone too far. Suggestions of murder staged in such a way as to ruin his reputation were firmly ruled out.

[sp1814]

I'd vote for number three - third party...not necessarily a deliberate homicide.

The fact that 100 attempts were made by yoga and escapologists who couldn't replicate the self-administered act is enough for me.

pixie373 - if I didn't come into work for two days in a row without explanation, someone would alert HR and my emergency number would be called.

However, a young man in his own flat could easily go a week without contacting his family and it be no big deal. I can go weeks without speaking to my sister, but when we are together, we gabble away like there's no tomorrow.

I don't think that his family not hearing from him for a week should necessarily reflect on them.

[emmie]

foul play, not possible to do this on one's own.

[FredPuli43]

A murderer must have had quite detailed knowledge of the victim's sexual practices, to make the killing look like a plausible accident in the course of auto-eroticism. Who was privy to such information ? Or did they make a wild guess?

[Sqad]

I have no idea.
He was a homosexual.
He was naked.
There was no evidence of 3rd party involved.
Post mortem was unhelpful as to the cause of death I.e no drowning or other evidence of force.

Strange fetish gone wrong.

[davetuc]

It's murder, plain and simple. And somebody is getting away with it. Same as the Dr Kelly case.

[LazyGun]

Just seems weird to me. I find it very difficult to imagine anyone locking themselves into a holdall, for any kind of reason or gratification. On the other hand, according to the radio reports, there appears to be no evidence of any kind of attempt to forensically cleanse the scene, as you might expect had a third party done this.

My own feeling is that it is probably foul play. The spooks angle cannot be discounted.

[emmie]

just how do you padlock yourself into a holdall, surely that would have not been possible, even Houdini had others who helped him in his act

[ichkeria]

You might be able to padlock yourself in. Just snap it shut by feeling for the lock through the bag. The oddity to me is surely you would know it would be difficult to get out. Murder seems an unlikely option: it would be a very strange and difficult way of killing someone against their will.

[Zeuhl]

Was it an open and shut case?

[sandyRoe]

It would make you wonder how people discover that they have a particular fetish. It hard to imagine someone deciding for the first time to get into a bag to see if they find the experience stimulating.

[mikey4444]

I don't believe a word of it. This is just the security services, copying their junior mates in the Police and lying through their teeth.

[ChillDoubt]

Strange fetish gone wrong, though there appears to be some sort of smokescreen because it is mentioned in recent reports that he had an interest in escapology but I don't recall that being brought up at the initial enquiry.

[jno]

"Two experts, working for the coroner, tried 400 times to lock themselves into the North Face bag and one claimed even Harry Houdini “would have struggled” to squeeze himself inside.

But days after the inquest a retired Army sergeant showed that it was possible and now police believe it was possible to do so. Mr Williams, a fitness fanatic, had an interest in escapology and confined spaces, visiting little known websites on the internet."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/mi6-spy-in-a-bag-gareth-williams-probably-locked-himself-inside-it-8936879.html

Sounds implausible but seriously, what do I know? Just because I can't do it (they don't make bags that big) and a couple of 'experts' can't, it doesn't mean it's impossible.

The impossibility of it was the biggest argument for someone else being involved. If it was possible, and there's actually no evidence at all of anyone else being around, then the logical conclusion is he did it himself.

As to why, goodness knows.

[ludwig]

He may have done it himself, but why in the bath? If you were just experimenting, that would be a strange place to do it. The only way it would make sense is if he didn't plan on coming out of the bag again.

Similarly, if he was bumped off by his colleagues as some are suggesting, surely they would have found a less bizarre way of doing it? Either something that looked more obviously like a suicide, or if not, at least disposed of the body properly.

I suspect we'll never know the answer.