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Gay Pupils Insulted By Homophobic Phrases
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the word "Gay", from the French "gai", meaning joyful or bright and showy, was increasingly appropriated in the last century to mean a particular lifestyle associated with orientation. Now it's been appropriated by others to mean something else.
Language is constantly evolving; is this something that the LGBTI community needs to "get over", or is the word "gay" now irrevocably locked to its 20th century meaning?
the word "Gay", from the French "gai", meaning joyful or bright and showy, was increasingly appropriated in the last century to mean a particular lifestyle associated with orientation. Now it's been appropriated by others to mean something else.
Language is constantly evolving; is this something that the LGBTI community needs to "get over", or is the word "gay" now irrevocably locked to its 20th century meaning?
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Is not 'gay pride', 'proud to be gay', the 'gay flag' and all the rest of the 'gay agenda' only a reaction to the fact that, until quite recently, being homosexual was not a thing which people could openly say they were without being condemned or seen as unpleasantly odd, queer, in fact? In time, it will all pass. Then homosexuals will feel no need to celebrate their new freedom; nobody will care whether they are homosexual or not. That time is almost with us; young people are less likely to be disapproving than their ancestors have been and are; but bullies in school will always use any difference, whatever it is, as an excuse to demonstrate their immature masculinity.
Kromo, it was one of those myths that get repeated until it gains the appearance of truth, we all fall for them. I had a colleague who was an inveterate liar. The strange thing was that even after we discovered his 'weakness' we didn't believe much of what he said but those things he said before we found him to be a liar registered in our brains as true. Very weird.
pixie373
I have never, ever, ever been n a situation where someone has announced "I'm gay" without prior justification.
What normally happens is that you meet a new person, say someone who joins your office, or a friend of a friend. Conversations will inevitably turn to relationships - "So what does your other half do? Do you have kids? How did you meet etc".
Now, at this point a straight person won't have to say, "I'm straight, because (unless the person on the other end of the conversation is outrageously camp", the balance of probability is that they will be straight.
If a gay man joins a new company, and is asked "So are you married, dating or what?" It's perfectly natural to say, "Actually, I'm in a civil partnership" or "I'm living with my boyfriend".
This is not the same as 'declaring who they sleep with', it's confirming who they are in love with.
It's straight people whose minds tend to go directly to the bedroom when they think of gay people. I note that the phrase 'sleep with' is always used when defining gay people, but not straight...
I have never, ever, ever been n a situation where someone has announced "I'm gay" without prior justification.
What normally happens is that you meet a new person, say someone who joins your office, or a friend of a friend. Conversations will inevitably turn to relationships - "So what does your other half do? Do you have kids? How did you meet etc".
Now, at this point a straight person won't have to say, "I'm straight, because (unless the person on the other end of the conversation is outrageously camp", the balance of probability is that they will be straight.
If a gay man joins a new company, and is asked "So are you married, dating or what?" It's perfectly natural to say, "Actually, I'm in a civil partnership" or "I'm living with my boyfriend".
This is not the same as 'declaring who they sleep with', it's confirming who they are in love with.
It's straight people whose minds tend to go directly to the bedroom when they think of gay people. I note that the phrase 'sleep with' is always used when defining gay people, but not straight...
jomifi
No - the second part is key here:
Ben Summerskill, chief executive of the gay equality charity Stonewall stated: "This is the first time that people were asked and data collection happened on doorsteps or over the phone, which may deter people from giving accurate responses - particularly if someone isn't openly gay at home." Stonewall worked with 600 major employers and their experience had shown that these statistics increased when people were regularly asked about sexual orientation as part of general monitoring information. It was therefore suggested that much of the 3% who responded with 'do not know', or refused to answer, may simply be homosexual or bisexual and a percentage of people may have lied when they claimed to be heterosexual.
But this bit is quite illuminating (if indeed the debate is going to focus on numbers):
2.7 per cent of 16- to 24-year-olds in the UK identified themselves as Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual compared with 0.4 per cent of 65-year-olds and over.
Now with a growth rate like that, in fifty years time...actually, I can't do the maths, but it appears that the number of gay people is either on the increase, or if it is indeed static, there's an awful lot of people who aren't 'out' to themselves, and therefore might not be telling the truth when surveyed.
Who knows - I don't think numbers are that important.
I think the real issue is that whether the number is 1.5%, 5% or somewhere in between! everyone deserves to be treated equally, and to live without fear of verbal or physical attack.
I can't see why anyone would disagree with that.
No - the second part is key here:
Ben Summerskill, chief executive of the gay equality charity Stonewall stated: "This is the first time that people were asked and data collection happened on doorsteps or over the phone, which may deter people from giving accurate responses - particularly if someone isn't openly gay at home." Stonewall worked with 600 major employers and their experience had shown that these statistics increased when people were regularly asked about sexual orientation as part of general monitoring information. It was therefore suggested that much of the 3% who responded with 'do not know', or refused to answer, may simply be homosexual or bisexual and a percentage of people may have lied when they claimed to be heterosexual.
But this bit is quite illuminating (if indeed the debate is going to focus on numbers):
2.7 per cent of 16- to 24-year-olds in the UK identified themselves as Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual compared with 0.4 per cent of 65-year-olds and over.
Now with a growth rate like that, in fifty years time...actually, I can't do the maths, but it appears that the number of gay people is either on the increase, or if it is indeed static, there's an awful lot of people who aren't 'out' to themselves, and therefore might not be telling the truth when surveyed.
Who knows - I don't think numbers are that important.
I think the real issue is that whether the number is 1.5%, 5% or somewhere in between! everyone deserves to be treated equally, and to live without fear of verbal or physical attack.
I can't see why anyone would disagree with that.
pixie373
But you wouldn't hide the fact that you had a husband/boyfriend. If a gay man refers to his partner a 'he' (as in '"Oh, he works for Nat West, and he's been there since RBS took over"), he's not directly referring to anything to do with the bedroom, in the same way that if a woman refers to her partner using the term 'He runs his own tool hire business', she's not directly saying anything about her sexual proclivities.
That's exactly how it works.
Gay people now don't hide behind non-description personal pronouns like they did in the old days.
They simply use the correct personal pronoun in the same way that straight people would - without squirming their way through clumsy statements like, "Oh, my partner works for Nat West and they've been there since RBS took over"
But you wouldn't hide the fact that you had a husband/boyfriend. If a gay man refers to his partner a 'he' (as in '"Oh, he works for Nat West, and he's been there since RBS took over"), he's not directly referring to anything to do with the bedroom, in the same way that if a woman refers to her partner using the term 'He runs his own tool hire business', she's not directly saying anything about her sexual proclivities.
That's exactly how it works.
Gay people now don't hide behind non-description personal pronouns like they did in the old days.
They simply use the correct personal pronoun in the same way that straight people would - without squirming their way through clumsy statements like, "Oh, my partner works for Nat West and they've been there since RBS took over"
Perhaps, Cambridge is ahead of the rest in such matters; we had a mayor and mayoress, a couple, who were both transsexuals, and nobody other than the national press cared; but I found myself asking, when a mother said that her daughter had a new partner, "A man or a woman?" The answer was "Woman". Now, I suppose that the word 'partner' triggered that enquiry, but I can hardly imagine that, in past days, anyone would have considered that a natural or normal enquiry in ordinary social intercourse. Here, it seemed perfectly natural. And that's the way it should be.
Who cares whether it is one in a million, or one in a hundred, or one in two of us, who is homosexual ? Discriminating against anybody because they are different is to be abhorred. It is sad, however, that anyone should live a life in which their true sexuality is kept secret from anyone, be that their nearest and dearest or a census clerk.
Who cares whether it is one in a million, or one in a hundred, or one in two of us, who is homosexual ? Discriminating against anybody because they are different is to be abhorred. It is sad, however, that anyone should live a life in which their true sexuality is kept secret from anyone, be that their nearest and dearest or a census clerk.
sp, you are massaging statistics to suit your preconceptions. I could equally well average your figures for young and old and get 1.5%, but that would probably be wrong too. I could also infer that people have a different view of their own sexuality as they get older and perhaps beyond the experimental/fashionable stage or that gays have a higher mortality rate than straights. Whatever, I suspect that the erroneous figure of 10% of the population being gay was propogated by vested interests to make homosexuality seem more mainstream or 'normal' (ie.within the 95 percentile) than it is in reality.
You shouldn't believe everything that stonewall tells you, they aren't exactly disinterested.
You shouldn't believe everything that stonewall tells you, they aren't exactly disinterested.
"Whatever, I suspect that the erroneous figure of 10% of the population being gay was propogated by vested interests to make homosexuality seem more mainstream or 'normal' (ie.within the 95 percentile) than it is in reality. "
This is a bit unnecessary, jom. "normal" and "statistically common" aren't necessarily the same thing.
Anyway, sp is just highlighting a problem with measuring the numbers of LGBT people - that there are often big incentives for LGBT people to lie or refuse to answer when they are asked in surveys etc.
This is a bit unnecessary, jom. "normal" and "statistically common" aren't necessarily the same thing.
Anyway, sp is just highlighting a problem with measuring the numbers of LGBT people - that there are often big incentives for LGBT people to lie or refuse to answer when they are asked in surveys etc.
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