Jury Concludes Mark Duggan Lawfully Killed

[ChillDoubt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25648913

[anotheoldgit]

Beat me to it Chilli, yes although he didn't have the gun in his hand and that he threw it away, it was still a lawful killing.

[anotheoldgit]

Considerable unrest inside the court, shouts of "Killers".

[Zeuhl]

But unarmed at the time of shooting.

Reasonably enough, if someone is known to carry or be carrying a gun, they need to be very careful how they behave when stopped by armed Police even if they aren't armed at that moment.

[ChillDoubt]

I'll always struggle with that one (his decison to supposedly throw the pistol).
Why exit the vehicle with it in your hand? If one intends surrendering to Police with hands in the air, why not leave the pistol on the back seat?
Only Mark Duggan will be able to explain his mindset that day, so we'll never know.

[dave50]

Rioting to follow no doubt.

[bazwillrun]

he was trash and most people arent going to miss him,and the jury were conviced by the evidence of what "this "angel" was really about.

[anotheoldgit]

We are now getting the usual incorrect remarks from some of his family who has been reported as saying "black lives mean nothing".

Doesn't these type of irresponsible outcries only helps to inflame matters?

[ChillDoubt]

Despite the conclusion not going the way they wanted I hope the family have the wherewithall at the press conference to ask those bent on causing disturbance not to do so.

[mikey4444]

Can't really argue with the verdict...sounds pretty right to me.

[ChillDoubt]

Lots of chants of "F*** the Police" outside court.
This is going to go pear shaped very quickly I feel.

[Zeuhl]

/Doesn't these type of irresponsible outcries only helps to inflame matters?/

Yes

And no doubt there will be more.

It doesn't help either that prominent people such as Diane Abbott are sticking their oar in at an inappropriate time and manner.

[LazyGun]

Not disputing the decision of the jury, since they have been the ones party to the evidence and arguments etc, but it does seem puzzling to me on the face of it that the jury conclude that an unarmed man can be lawfully shot and killed by the police - I thought there needed to be a "clear and present danger" or imminent threat to the public/police from a weapon for such a killing to be deemed lawful?

Was he supposed to have exited the taxi gun in hand and then thrown it away?

[Gromit]

Duggen had got the gun because he feared being killed by a fellow drug dealer.

The taxi he was in was blocked by an unmarked police vehicle. It is fair to assume when he exited the vehicle he did not think they were police officers. Once they had called and identified themselves he slung the weapon.

[trt]

I thought the jury were very brave considering the looks they were getting from his family and friends!

[trt]

## Duggen had got the gun because he feared being killed by a fellow drug dealer. ##

One less on the streets!

[LazyGun]

@ Gromit
"The taxi he was in was blocked by an unmarked police vehicle. It is fair to assume when he exited the vehicle he did not think they were police officers. Once they had called and identified themselves he slung the weapon."

Thanks for the clarification. But I remain a bit puzzled, to be honest - If they had called out and identified, and he had then thrown the gun away, why the need to shoot him?

[youngmafbog]

//A black life aint woth anything//

What about the black lives this man was destroying in supplying class A drugs/

//Mark Duggan was a member of a violent gang involved in gun crime and dealing class A drugs, a senior detective has told an inquest.

Det Ch Insp Mick Foote headed Operation Dibri which targeted Tottenham gang TMD, a group he said contained "48 of Europe's most violent criminals".//

[Zeuhl]

i am naturally suspicious of the notion that if the Police can persuade a jury that just because THEY THOUGHT someone was a threat then they were entitled to deliver lethal force legally.

That has been discredited in a number of cases when unarmed, non threatening people have been gunned down.

In this case however, Duggan did have a weapon at or immediately before the shooting and behaved in a manner that could be threatening. Regardless of whether he thought he was dealing with rival drug dealers or not, the moral is if you are going to play gun-toting 'Gangstas' in the street then you are contributing to what happens next.

[youngmafbog]

did they see the gun thrown/kicked away though?

If you carry a gun you expect the worst thing possible to happen to you, regardless of race/colour/Gang or not

[ChillDoubt]

The taxi he was in was blocked by an unmarked police vehicle. It is fair to assume when he exited the vehicle he did not think they were police officers. Once they had called and identified themselves he slung the weapon.
---------------------
Strange he didn't come out all guns blazing then, as he believed his life to be in imminenet danger.
Unpalatable though it is for his family, he will not be a loss to society and his demise doubtless means that others will not die as a result of gun/drug related dealings and violence.