Max Clifford Latest

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27131112

Apparently the Judge has said that the Jury can now convict Max Clifford, when they are only partly sure he is guilty, instead of fully sure !

[scooping]

hc4361 I keep saying if they plead NOT guilty....,..

[Peter Pedant]

New Judge are you sure ?

When I was writing a criminology exam ( er 1973) there was a 60% chance of getting acquitted by the jury....

The case I was involved in, the jury took eight minutes to acquit
which kinda goes against a one-in-twenty chance of acquittal

I cant believe someone assessed a chance of 19 in 20 of conviction - the case was complete crap from one day to the next.

[DTCwordfan]

She would get a Damehood, not a knighthood - perhaps the problem begins there then.

I believe 9-1 would be more than acceptable. 8-2? 7-3 to retrial, and that latter action is what I think may well happen here.

[hc4361]

You do keep saying 'not guilty', scooping but you don't seem to realise that is irrelevant. Everyone facing a trial before a jury in Crown Court has pleaded 'not guilty'.

[hc4361]

Peter, a major problem is that victims and witnesses can be utterly convincing and compelling at every stage then crumble in the court room.

[scooping]

hc4361 yes

[Gromit]

Surely it is that he will accept a majority verdict instead of a unanimous verdict.

The way you have put it in your question makes it sound as though all twelve jurors can be unsure but still convict.

[Gromit]

In defence of both Scoop and New Judge.

New Judge's 80-85% conviction rate for crown court seems to be accurate. I found a 83% figure for 2011.

However, I did find a link from 2002 which Stated

// North Wales police chief Richard Brunstrom has criticised the high levels of defendants who are cleared by crown court juries after pleading not guilty.
The chief constable said it was "tragic" that 63% of people who stood trial walked free. //

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2032131.stm

If scoop was told 15-20 years ago that Liverpool Crown Court had a low conviction rate, it may have been true at he time, but not now.

[woofgang]

love your avatar gromit.

[mikey4444]

Could it be that 9 on the Jury have decided that he is not guilty, and 1 decided that he is guilty ? There is nothing in the media that I can see, that shows that the figures are the other way around. Although I suspect it IS the other way around.

[youngmafbog]

The Judge will have to be very careful. In the light of the recent acquittals if he is seen to be siding at all with the CPS to save them face I am sure appeals will ring throughout the land and the Judge, not the CPS, will have to carry the can.

See what happens today I guess.

[Gromit]

Wolfgang

My avatar is the logo of 'Private Eye' magazine. It is a spoof of the then Daily Rxpress logo. It was drawn by cartoonist and actor Willie Rushton, and the character resembles a young John Wells who wrote and performed 'Dear Bill' the spoof Denis Thatcher letters.

[Peter Pedant]

At the judge didnt have the humiliation of being interrupted by the defence lawyer - complaining he was not summing up but making a speech for the prosecution !

and yes they do seem to have changed their behaviour - in 'my' trial - the one I was in the gallery for - the judge at intervals said - 'do the prsecution or defence have any points I have made that they would wish to complain about?'

which was a difference to a few years ago where the judge banged his gave la nd screamed " silence in court !!"


Clifford's defence has been " I have never met these people I dont know what they are talking about...." hasnt it ?

[woofgang]

PP that's an interesting defence because if its not true, surely it should be disprovable?

[scooping]

Thank you Gromit. It may have been true, and I believe it was, when I was informed of the Merseyside conviction rate in crown courts and it may not be true today. Guess that's one of the problems about getting older...