Claimants To Work For Benefits Is It Fair?

[gordiescotland1]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/472791/Work-for-your-welfare-benefits-long-term-jobless-to-be-told-in-new-crackdown
What do people think of this story?

[Zeuhl]

/Zeuhl, do you not think if a person works 50yrs + he / she has done enough to recoup what they have paid in? /

Well obviously not in many cases.

50 years of small contributions will not equate to 10, 15 or 20+ years of various Benefits.

It's basic maths and the main component in a Benefits bill that is so cripplingly huge.

[sandyRoe]

How much is it that the rumour mill says they get now? I listened to a taxi driver a while back who was sure they got £3000 on arrival.

[jim360]

£30k and a house that belonged to a family who got booted out, Sandy.

[TWR]

Do the Romanian Gypsies come to mind? regards benefits?

[Zeuhl]

Quite right Sandy

Taxi drivers know everything

apparently

"these days if you say you're English you get arrested and thrown in jail"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCo-A2rAjmM

[jim360]

There is an interesting graphic in the Daily Mail article here, the one tracking . I'm not sure what their source is, but there's something in it that puzzles me slightly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614591/Clean-war-memorials-lose-benefits-Long-term-jobless-ordered-community-work-stripped-jobseekers-allowance.html

It's the picture in the middle. Anyway, it seems to me to show that the number of long-term unemployed plummeted at the same time as all over unemployed spiked in the 2008 crash.

Anyway, the other thing that is interesting about it is how, since 2011, the number of long-term unemployed has remained essentially fixed despite all this government's tough measures. They aren't working, and I don't see that this will make much difference either.

[hc4361]

jim, don't forget the people that have been kicked off sick benefits and on to unemployment benefits recently, also each year the retirement age for women increases meaning they can claim unemployment benefits instead.

And of course immigration may well play a part in those figures. If a new immigrant gets a job it means an unemployed person hasn't got it.

Years ago the government of the day preferred more people to claim sickness benefits as it kept the unemployment figures down. Now, the government has realised that (generally) sick pay is more than unemployment pay and are desperate to get people off it.

Some people claiming unemployment benefit will never be able to hold down a job for various reasons. There has always been people like that and there always will be. I wouldn't want such a person doing 'voluntary' work for me - think Fungi from Benefit St.

[scooping]

Sorry, Jim360, and others, didn't realise that these changes do start from today.

[jim360]

That's all right. With this government you can never tell anyway. And likely soon enough someone will bring another legal challenge to this and the idea will have to be hurriedly changed because Iain Duncan Smith and/ or Mike Penning ignored his officials again who said that he'd need to take more time or lay off fewer of his staff or do what he was told to by the judges etc. etc.

Working at the DWP these days is apparently tantamount to hell on Earth, and it's not much better elsewhere either apparently... I'd lay good money on this idea being brought in despite advice to wait a bit and actually think the idea through.

[scooping]

It's all a damn mess, isn't it?
Many who deserve help don't get it.
Many who don't deserve help get it.
Many fall somewhere in between and, what I often hear, is that many who try to come off benefits and into work are not overly helped by the system. Also, many who leave work, for whatever reason, and particularly when they are unaccustomed to the system, don't get the support, even if it's only advice, that they may merit.
Is it possible (and I don't know the answer) that other countries do better at this and, if so, should we not be able to learn the lessons?

[naomi24]

I don’t know much about this, but from what I saw on tonight’s news people on Job Seekers’ allowance are to be given a choice between signing on every day, or working in exchange for their benefit, or losing their benefit. If they are the options, it sounds reasonable to me.

[sandyRoe]

If someone has to sign on every day will they be allowed travelling expenses? It's a £2 bus ride to the dole from where I live. If one of the neighbours had to go and sign every day they'd be out £20 a week on bus fares.

[DaisyNonna]

My daughter would mind! Made redundant after 14 years, now volunteers 3 days a week. Made to feel the lowest of the low at her local job centre. Is skilled in many ways, but most job applications are not even acknowledged.

[pixie373]

Your daughter would qualify if she is doing voluntary work already. It wouldn't affect her? Best of luck to her in finding something permanent that she enjoys x

[Ken4155]

Is the government's aim to get people back into work or to look as if they're getting tough on benefits. It doesn't matter how many times a person visits the joke shop to sign on if the jobs aren't there in the first place. And please don't quote me the government figures of 600,000 jobs available at any one time. If this lot told me today is Monday i'd have to look botton left of my screen to check.

[kvalidir]

If you live where I do, there is no bus service for in excess of 5 miles and the nearest job centre is 15 miles away. There is existing legislation in place regarding 'postal signing' for people living in rural areas, so quite how the government is going to reconcile this with their new ideas I really have no idea. Some people assume everyone lives on a bus route or within walking distance and in the depths of the countryside that is simply not the case. This will cause misery and will not be cost effective either.

[naomi24]

kvalidir, I'm assuming that special measures will be initiated for people living in such circumstances. Will you please let us know how the unemployed of your acquaintance get on under the new scheme?

[kvalidir]

I actually don't personally know anyone around here who is unemployed but I'm fairly certain that they must exist. There are a couple of near suicidal ATOS victims however, and they aren't having a nice time, so I won't hold my breath that this government will have the common sense to take anyone's circumstances into consideration as you suggest they might.

[naomi24]

Oh, so your complaint is really just about this government trying to address the problems of an out-of-control benefits system. Ok.

[kvalidir]

No, my concerns, if you read my response, is actually that I don't think this government is capable of formulating any sort of effective reform of the benefits system that does not include inflicting misery on the very poorest, most vulnerable members of our society. Rural poverty is very real, and very damaging, and not something that this government is at all in touch with. THAT is what concerns me. They are not attempting to 'reform' in any case, they are attempting to create a divisive society, where it is considered a shameful thing to be poor, in need or otherwise disadvantaged- and yes I do have a huge problem with that, and so should everyone.