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The Outrageous Ukip Donor
The Ukip donor who says gay people are incapable of love -
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Answers
This chap Marchessini is quite clearly stark raving bonkers, and when CH4, amongst others, point this out, its a case of "snide bashing of UKIP" ? Really ? Did you think about that comment before you pressed the submit button brenden ? How extreme and offensive does a UKIP supporter have to be before you are prepared to admit that, yet again, UKIP has failed to do...
19:46 Wed 30th Apr 2014
Brenden and others...how about the Tory MP that has resigned, causing a by-election in Newark ? Nobody, least of me, are saying that UKIP has a monopoly on dodgy members. But it is Farages complete inability to do anything about these people until they are brought to his attention by the media that is the problem. He is trying to shut the stable door long after the horse has bolted.
He is presiding over a complete shambles. I was in Swansea city centre yesterday and his walk-about was cancelled because local opposition was robust. When somebody like Farage pops his head above the parapet, is it any wonder that he is going to come up against some stick. There were people from all parties protesting there yesterday, not just the Trots.
I still maintain that to call into question the media and "the left" when they ask awkward questions is trying to shoot the messenger because you don't like the message. If Farage and UKIP want to be taken seriously, they need to clean their act up, instead of whining every time they get caught with their pants down.
This Greek twit is stark, raving bonkers....any political Party, should have given his money back and run like hell in the opposite direction, as soon as it was apparent what he was. Even UKIP who seem to collects idiots like Marchessini with gay abandon.
He is presiding over a complete shambles. I was in Swansea city centre yesterday and his walk-about was cancelled because local opposition was robust. When somebody like Farage pops his head above the parapet, is it any wonder that he is going to come up against some stick. There were people from all parties protesting there yesterday, not just the Trots.
I still maintain that to call into question the media and "the left" when they ask awkward questions is trying to shoot the messenger because you don't like the message. If Farage and UKIP want to be taken seriously, they need to clean their act up, instead of whining every time they get caught with their pants down.
This Greek twit is stark, raving bonkers....any political Party, should have given his money back and run like hell in the opposite direction, as soon as it was apparent what he was. Even UKIP who seem to collects idiots like Marchessini with gay abandon.
I apologise most sincerely Andy, I generally find it best either to enclose another persons remarks in 3 slashes /// and quotes from other sources enclosed in 3 stars *** clears up any misunderstandings.
But then you did seem to agree with what kromo put hence this,
/// A class answer - made me laugh out loud! ///
Don't encourage him.
But then you did seem to agree with what kromo put hence this,
/// A class answer - made me laugh out loud! ///
Don't encourage him.
AOG - no problem at all, an easy mistake to make.
I did ednjoy K's response though, I think a little humour in political debate is always useful.
On a serious note, I do think the unpleasantness directed at UKIP generally is unhelpful - the main parties can see the increase in their popularity, they should be asking themselves why.
I did ednjoy K's response though, I think a little humour in political debate is always useful.
On a serious note, I do think the unpleasantness directed at UKIP generally is unhelpful - the main parties can see the increase in their popularity, they should be asking themselves why.
AOG
I think my post is clear enough, but I'll repeat the point I'm making.
(ludwig - I'm trying to address your post as well)
The reason I used the "fruitcake king" image is because UKIP frequently has the problem of unsavory people getting into influential positions. It's not that "one loony" supports UKIP - as I said before, that would be silly. It's that there seems to be an endless stream of them in the party, and nobody in the leadership seems to care for doing anything about it. Whenever it happens, they come up with a transparent response and assure it won't happen again.
So what's with the crown of nuts and berries? The reason I used that image is because it's hard to see what would actually make UKIP supporters question the party's credentials, as they seem wilfully blind to the leadership's failure to correctly vet its members - which is kind of important if you're trying to position yourself as a legitimate party.
Incidentally, I genuinely think I worded this pretty clearly on more than one occasion in this thread, but people just seem to be ignoring what the point of my argument is.
I think my post is clear enough, but I'll repeat the point I'm making.
(ludwig - I'm trying to address your post as well)
The reason I used the "fruitcake king" image is because UKIP frequently has the problem of unsavory people getting into influential positions. It's not that "one loony" supports UKIP - as I said before, that would be silly. It's that there seems to be an endless stream of them in the party, and nobody in the leadership seems to care for doing anything about it. Whenever it happens, they come up with a transparent response and assure it won't happen again.
So what's with the crown of nuts and berries? The reason I used that image is because it's hard to see what would actually make UKIP supporters question the party's credentials, as they seem wilfully blind to the leadership's failure to correctly vet its members - which is kind of important if you're trying to position yourself as a legitimate party.
Incidentally, I genuinely think I worded this pretty clearly on more than one occasion in this thread, but people just seem to be ignoring what the point of my argument is.
"Forget about the character of individuals who donates money to UKIP, just outline the main reasons that you don't like this party, we can then see where you are coming from."
Look, I did explicitly state this more than once.
This is not about donations. This is NOT about donations. It's not about one donor. It's about the large number of people with frankly insane political views who manage to get into the party.
One or two ineffectuals? Not much the leadership can do. A whole stream of lunatics among the grassroots and in positions of authority? That's something the leadership should be held accountable for.
This isn't name-calling. It's not "snide". It's not done out of fear either - it is a perfectly reasonable criticism of how they are running their party.
Look, I did explicitly state this more than once.
This is not about donations. This is NOT about donations. It's not about one donor. It's about the large number of people with frankly insane political views who manage to get into the party.
One or two ineffectuals? Not much the leadership can do. A whole stream of lunatics among the grassroots and in positions of authority? That's something the leadership should be held accountable for.
This isn't name-calling. It's not "snide". It's not done out of fear either - it is a perfectly reasonable criticism of how they are running their party.
not being facetious but this bloke is an older Greek man they are not necessarily noted for their liberal views. i have a number of Greek male friends who think like this, sexist, and often racist. Doesn't excuse it, he should be put out to grass, but as others have said you can find donors like this in any of the parties, its only got headlines because it's UKIP
mikey4444
/// I was in Swansea city centre yesterday and his walk-about was cancelled because local opposition was robust. When somebody like Farage pops his head above the parapet, is it any wonder that he is going to come up against some stick. There were people from all parties protesting there yesterday, not just the Trots. ///
Took a straw poll amongst the protesters did you mikey, or were they all carrying banners with their particular political party emblems on.
Once again no one will state why they hate UKIP so much, is it because they want us out of Europe (a popular general public's wish) or is it their opposition to mass immigration (another popular general public's wish) I suspect it is the latter that is upsetting some.
If I am right and it is the latter, why are they against this, has UKIP ever said that if they get in power they will throw out anyone who is not white and British?
On remaining in Europe:
http://
On immigration:
http://
/// I was in Swansea city centre yesterday and his walk-about was cancelled because local opposition was robust. When somebody like Farage pops his head above the parapet, is it any wonder that he is going to come up against some stick. There were people from all parties protesting there yesterday, not just the Trots. ///
Took a straw poll amongst the protesters did you mikey, or were they all carrying banners with their particular political party emblems on.
Once again no one will state why they hate UKIP so much, is it because they want us out of Europe (a popular general public's wish) or is it their opposition to mass immigration (another popular general public's wish) I suspect it is the latter that is upsetting some.
If I am right and it is the latter, why are they against this, has UKIP ever said that if they get in power they will throw out anyone who is not white and British?
On remaining in Europe:
http://
On immigration:
http://
Kromovaracun
/// Incidentally, I genuinely think I worded this pretty clearly on more than one occasion in this thread, but people just seem to be ignoring what the point of my argument is. ///
No they are not they just can't see the point you are making.
But correct me if I am wrong you disagree with some individuals attached to UKIP, if this is correct then fair enough, but it seems strange you just picking on one particular party when they are not the only;y party rife in this kind of thing, as I pointed out in my previous links.
So we are now back to square one, it would seem that by only focusing on UKIP it is what I have been saying all along, it must be down to their views on certain issues.
So I will ask again "what are these issues that you seem so frightened about"?
/// Incidentally, I genuinely think I worded this pretty clearly on more than one occasion in this thread, but people just seem to be ignoring what the point of my argument is. ///
No they are not they just can't see the point you are making.
But correct me if I am wrong you disagree with some individuals attached to UKIP, if this is correct then fair enough, but it seems strange you just picking on one particular party when they are not the only;y party rife in this kind of thing, as I pointed out in my previous links.
So we are now back to square one, it would seem that by only focusing on UKIP it is what I have been saying all along, it must be down to their views on certain issues.
So I will ask again "what are these issues that you seem so frightened about"?
"you disagree with some individuals attached to UKIP, if this is correct then fair enough, but it seems strange you just picking on one particular party when they are not the only;y party rife in this kind of thing, as I pointed out in my previous links. "
My post is not about "disagreeing with individuals." It is about a large number of people with views that can only seriously be described as "mad" who the party seems not to care about. This is a failure on the part of the UKIP leadership.
Please forgive me if I seem terse, but there's only so many ways I can write the same thing.
As for comparing to the other parties, I addressed this earlier:
Yes, there's probably some Trotskyists still lurking in the Labour party. Yes, there's probably some archaic old bigots in the Tory party. But the kind of things that keep falling out of UKIP are a) a whole dimension of lunacy away from those and b) not subject to anything like as serious an effort to keep them away from influential positions in the party.
(Furthermore, I'm not particularly "pro" either of the other parties. So saying "well, labour/the tories do it too" does not exactly persuade me. It also undermines UKIP's claim to be different.)
My post is not about "disagreeing with individuals." It is about a large number of people with views that can only seriously be described as "mad" who the party seems not to care about. This is a failure on the part of the UKIP leadership.
Please forgive me if I seem terse, but there's only so many ways I can write the same thing.
As for comparing to the other parties, I addressed this earlier:
Yes, there's probably some Trotskyists still lurking in the Labour party. Yes, there's probably some archaic old bigots in the Tory party. But the kind of things that keep falling out of UKIP are a) a whole dimension of lunacy away from those and b) not subject to anything like as serious an effort to keep them away from influential positions in the party.
(Furthermore, I'm not particularly "pro" either of the other parties. So saying "well, labour/the tories do it too" does not exactly persuade me. It also undermines UKIP's claim to be different.)
" it must be down to their views on certain issues. "
But "issues" are not the only thing people judge parties on.
The main reason I dislike UKIP is that it is governed by a group of people who I believe are extremely untrustworthy, even by the standards of the other parties - so for me it doesn't really matter what policies they come out with because even if I agreed with them I would not trust the individuals involved near a position of authority.
But seeing as you asked me, here are my views on UKIP's policies:
- EU withdrawal - I'm undecided. I do, however, think the party is extremely dishonest with its figures, which I find distasteful.
- Tax - I actually quite like the idea of abolishing inheritance tax, but the figures for the rest of their programme simply do not add up.
- Immigration - well, UKIP are actually a bit evasive on this one when it comes to immigration from outside the EU. They said at one point they wanted a 5-year freeze (which I think is a terrible idea), but then didn't. Oh, and I also find the sentiments behind Farage's suggestion that we only allow Christian refugees from Syria quite distasteful.
- Energy - UKIP is skeptical of climate change. I am not.
But "issues" are not the only thing people judge parties on.
The main reason I dislike UKIP is that it is governed by a group of people who I believe are extremely untrustworthy, even by the standards of the other parties - so for me it doesn't really matter what policies they come out with because even if I agreed with them I would not trust the individuals involved near a position of authority.
But seeing as you asked me, here are my views on UKIP's policies:
- EU withdrawal - I'm undecided. I do, however, think the party is extremely dishonest with its figures, which I find distasteful.
- Tax - I actually quite like the idea of abolishing inheritance tax, but the figures for the rest of their programme simply do not add up.
- Immigration - well, UKIP are actually a bit evasive on this one when it comes to immigration from outside the EU. They said at one point they wanted a 5-year freeze (which I think is a terrible idea), but then didn't. Oh, and I also find the sentiments behind Farage's suggestion that we only allow Christian refugees from Syria quite distasteful.
- Energy - UKIP is skeptical of climate change. I am not.
Kromovaracun
/// I also find the sentiments behind Farage's suggestion that we only allow Christian refugees from Syria quite
distasteful. ///
Taken out of context once again.
This was a suggestion made to the Home Secretary, since Muslim refugees could find many countries prepared to take them and more suited to their culture, whereas Christians would me more likely to be persecuted.
/// I also find the sentiments behind Farage's suggestion that we only allow Christian refugees from Syria quite
distasteful. ///
Taken out of context once again.
This was a suggestion made to the Home Secretary, since Muslim refugees could find many countries prepared to take them and more suited to their culture, whereas Christians would me more likely to be persecuted.
here are some more dodgy candidates
http://
http://
AOG...the Guardian Poll that gave a link to is from Nov 2012. Here is a much
more up-to-date Poll, from yougov ::
http://
Not much between the In and Out I will admit but it clearly shows that people seem to prefer the default position regarding Europe. So it asks the question where is all this support from UKIP actually coming from ?
As I and others have repeated ad nauseum here on AB, UKIP only have one policy, and the clue is in the name...they want Britain out of the EEC.
Farage has said so himself on many previous occasions. Sorry that I must sound like a stuck record here but I simply can't understand why this twit and his party are so popular.
Or are they ?
more up-to-date Poll, from yougov ::
http://
Not much between the In and Out I will admit but it clearly shows that people seem to prefer the default position regarding Europe. So it asks the question where is all this support from UKIP actually coming from ?
As I and others have repeated ad nauseum here on AB, UKIP only have one policy, and the clue is in the name...they want Britain out of the EEC.
Farage has said so himself on many previous occasions. Sorry that I must sound like a stuck record here but I simply can't understand why this twit and his party are so popular.
Or are they ?
But brenden, my link above would seem to show that most people who were asked, preferred that we should remain in the EU.
Can I please ask you some straight questions.
Forgetting all that has been said here, and coming back to the original post, do you think that any Party should accept donations from someone like this Greek chap, who holds such abhorrent views ?
If any Party did accept money from someone like him, what should that Party do, when they realise, somewhat belatedly, that they have ?
Should they :::
A, give the money back, or
B, put their Deputy Chair live on CH4 news and pretend that there isn't a problem ?
Can I please ask you some straight questions.
Forgetting all that has been said here, and coming back to the original post, do you think that any Party should accept donations from someone like this Greek chap, who holds such abhorrent views ?
If any Party did accept money from someone like him, what should that Party do, when they realise, somewhat belatedly, that they have ?
Should they :::
A, give the money back, or
B, put their Deputy Chair live on CH4 news and pretend that there isn't a problem ?
Wait until the public demands their resignation like all the parties are guilty of - Is that to the point mickey? You seem to be insinuating that UKIP are the only ones guilty of this practice which is not true, wait until we get a Muslim led party vieing for leadership would you then demand they be banned for their beliefs on homosexuality etc . Their views maybe abhorrent to you and I but you would have a great problem changing them. (took my time pressing the submit button)LOL
AOG
You asked me about what my gripe with UKIP is - and I told you. I find the leadership of UKIP mistrustful. This is far more important to me than any policies they put forward.
Now might I suggest you actually respond to the point some of us are making? The disproportionately large numbers of people with insane political views is a serious failure on the part of the leadership to exercise control over their party.
I'm not actually expecting a response as you've been ignoring this point for the whole thread, no matter how many times it's been made, but I just thought it best to leave it on record.
You asked me about what my gripe with UKIP is - and I told you. I find the leadership of UKIP mistrustful. This is far more important to me than any policies they put forward.
Now might I suggest you actually respond to the point some of us are making? The disproportionately large numbers of people with insane political views is a serious failure on the part of the leadership to exercise control over their party.
I'm not actually expecting a response as you've been ignoring this point for the whole thread, no matter how many times it's been made, but I just thought it best to leave it on record.
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