Why Is It Considered Right Wing To Want To Look After The Interests Of The Uk?

[ToraToraTora]

UKIP is routinely describd a "right wing" and often "extreme right" - Why is that? why is it a right wing trait to want self determination? Why is it a leftwing trait to want the opposite?

[factor-fiction]

It's just a long-established label.
I often think that rather than a linear spectrum it should be shown as a horseshoe since there are similarities between extreme left and extreme right

[ChillDoubt]

Because it's deemed de rigeur to bash anything even vaguely patriotic, which in turn is percieved as jingoism if you're English and patriotic.

Heaven help any England fans seen flying a cross of St George on your car the day after the World Cup ends, it'll doubtless be deemd a racist symbol.

[paddywak]

Some years ago i did my history A level as an adult student, FF and that is exactly how the teacher answered this question.

[Peter Pedant]

Hahahah oh god you're so funny 3T !

Did I read right ? Think someone right wing - Hitler.... why did he want self determination for all the countires in the Greater Reich ? Hahaha

and Uncle Joe - Joseph Stalin - famous left winger - soort of - why did he want self determination for place like er Poland Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Ukraine ( Putin a 'successor' is a great self determinator innit ? )

O god I think I am gonna dine out on that one

[Slapshot]

You just knew PP would have a typically unconsidered response......it's not what I'd call an answer.

Politics has shifted from the extremes of the old right wing Nazi/Fascist type parties. As FF says it's a label based on certen stereotypes of nationalist parties..... anything that falls under that banner is classed as right wing these days....Alex Salmond as a fascist .... now there's a thought

[paddywak]

Chill the first thing I do when I change my car is get new number plates featuring the Cross of St George.I'm English all the time not just for the World Cup it doesn't make me racist or prejudiced,just English.

[Peter Pedant]

. and Gerry Adams before he became a politician ( must be careful here ) was keen on self determination for Northern Ireland so it could become a right wing paradise such as the People Republic of NI ?

Blimey Paddywak - I hope you got History A level as an adult as there are so many counter examples...to illustrate the exact opposite.

[Gromit]

In the 1970s and 1980s it was the left wingers who were opposed to EEC membership. Tony Benn leading the 'No' campaign in 1975. The Morning Star was the only national newspaper to campaign against our membership. The Conservative Party (and the Labour leadership) and all of Fleet Street were avid supporters of Europe.

So the whole premise of your question is flawed.

Some leftwingers are still anti Europe. And some on the right are supporters of it.

[paddywak]

I did PP, Grade A

[Kromovaracun]

3T - you're doing this thing where you assume that you are objectively right without actually showing why.

Left-Wing people want to look after the interests of the UK just as much as right-wingers do. The difference is that they disagree about how those interests are taken care of. There is considerable ambiguity here, as good policymaking is not as simple as the general public sometimes likes to pretend it is.

[Peter Pedant]

Slashot - it is a list of counter-examples - well disguised I admit - to illustrate and support the opposite.

Both the statement and its opposite cannot co-exist ( as true) in any logical system worth its salt - and serves to refute the original statement.

I think that is called reductio ad absurdum

you certainly got the absurdum bit....

[Gromit]

If you could be bothered doing any research before posting 3T you would know the Communist Party of GB and the Docialist Workers Party both campain against EU membership.

The new alliance of leftwing anti-EU interests, No2EU are fielding many candidates tomorrow

http://www.no2eu.com/

[ToraToraTora]

Gromit flawed - perhaps, why is UKIP considered right wing then?
FF - how about this: http://www.politicalcompass.org/
PP only going on the language used here and in the media.

I have often been labelled right wing but I do have some opinions that many would say border on socialist.

The point is that by daring to not support the subjugation of the UK, UKIP is deemed extreme right, usually by mikey.

The left routinely demonstrate Nazi tendencies by bullying anyone who does not hold the "correct" opinion on any given subject, they seem to miss the irony!

[Slapshot]

So Mr Pedant....why do you go straight down the line of sarcasm in a thread where I suspect TTT was looking at some proper debate.

Reductio ad Absurdum - early Greek philosophical technique, Reductio arguements can be found in early satirical works by Xenophanes of Colophon. Prehaps we should go straight to Reductio ad Hitlerum.....

[ToraToraTora]

OK gromit I get it, UKIP are not the only anti EU party, fair enough, why are they considered "right wing" then?

[Gromit]

3T

There is are leftwing candidates in your constituency if you want to vote for one. Here is the
Ist...

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/britain/eu/1924-22-may-vote-no2eu-full-list-of-candidates.html

(Good to see our old friend Dave Nellist on that list).

[ToraToraTora]

yes gromit, you have still not explained why UKIP are considered "right wing". Anyone? we have seen from the above that it is not necessarily right wing to be anti EU so can anyone tell my why UKIP is "right wing" and the others are not?

[Kromovaracun]

UKIP is largely considered right-wing because of the reasons they want to withdraw from the EU rather than just supporting withdrawal itself. It's also considered right-wing for some of it's other policies.

For example, they want to leave the EU largely because they are anti-immigration (yes I know Farage says they aren't but this is rather transparent). They also climate change skeptics, support major tax cuts and massive increases in defense spending.

Finally, of course, UKIP identifies itself as a right-wing party (though they wouldn't say far right. But then they say a lot of things.)

[ToraToraTora]

right so being a sceptic makes you right wing, I see. Wanting people to keep more of their own money makes you right wing too it seems. I get it now, to be not considered right wing you have to want high taxes, believe scientifc theories and not want immigration, I see, It's all so clear

[Gromit]

3T

There are different reasons for opposing the EU, and far opposing parties latch on to different extremes.

UKiP are a nationalist party and Nationalism is associated with fascism and extreme conservatism. This is probably a 20th century notion perceived from Spanish and Italian patriotism between the wars. The far right do not like the EU because they think it steals their nationalism. Their souvreignty, their statehood.

Funnily enough, the far left see the EU as a fascist organisation. They think it is run by consetvatives and bankers and that it exploits the workers.

Obviously, the far right and the far left cannot both be right. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.