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There's Gratitude For You.
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Amazing we take in these Somali refugee parents and their 11 children to protect them from dangers in their own land, only for three of them to leave the safety of this country so as to put their lives at risk fighting for yet another country.
Also gets one to ask yet again, how can one tell a moderate Muslim from an extremist one?
Amazing we take in these Somali refugee parents and their 11 children to protect them from dangers in their own land, only for three of them to leave the safety of this country so as to put their lives at risk fighting for yet another country.
Also gets one to ask yet again, how can one tell a moderate Muslim from an extremist one?
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//Gromit//
Was your 1107 post a tongue in cheek comment?Are you really naive to believe that two young Somali girls have upped stumps in the UK purely to "reside" in a war zone between terrorist factions.The law they may have contravened is engaging in conduct in preparation of terrorist acts as two 22yr old home grown terrorist boys were recently charged with and appeared at Woolwich Crown Court.It is strange that so many,say,Pakistani youths in this country tell their parents they are going home to visit relations and low and behold they happen to stumble into a Al Queda or ISIS terrorist training camp in Afghan,Yemen or Syria.Faulty GPS or what???
Was your 1107 post a tongue in cheek comment?Are you really naive to believe that two young Somali girls have upped stumps in the UK purely to "reside" in a war zone between terrorist factions.The law they may have contravened is engaging in conduct in preparation of terrorist acts as two 22yr old home grown terrorist boys were recently charged with and appeared at Woolwich Crown Court.It is strange that so many,say,Pakistani youths in this country tell their parents they are going home to visit relations and low and behold they happen to stumble into a Al Queda or ISIS terrorist training camp in Afghan,Yemen or Syria.Faulty GPS or what???
retrocop,
The reports indicate they have gone to be brides.
http://
ISIS is not a designated terrorist Organisation
http://
The reports indicate they have gone to be brides.
http://
ISIS is not a designated terrorist Organisation
http://
AOG
How can we tell moderate Muslims from extremists?
We can't. Just like we cannot tell anything about anyone until they act.
However, what we CAN assume is that the majority of Muslims we encounter aren't extremists, because the word 'extremist' gives us the clue.
They are by definition extreme.
The same applies to muggers, paedophiles, wife beaters etc. The man or woman standing next to you at the bus stop may be any one (or more) of these, but you cannot tell.
How can we tell moderate Muslims from extremists?
We can't. Just like we cannot tell anything about anyone until they act.
However, what we CAN assume is that the majority of Muslims we encounter aren't extremists, because the word 'extremist' gives us the clue.
They are by definition extreme.
The same applies to muggers, paedophiles, wife beaters etc. The man or woman standing next to you at the bus stop may be any one (or more) of these, but you cannot tell.
I'd be delighted, andy, you said;
///you cannot expect that refugees taken into the UK will automatically stand behind its belief systems and customes, expecially where concience dictates that joining an armed struggle is perceived as the correct action///
So I'm saying, and you'll have to forgive the simple analogy from a simple man, why put the fox in the coop in the first place. In fact how dare successive governments expose the British public to unnecessary danger (while, no doubt, living in rural idylls with 24 hour guards).
///you cannot expect that refugees taken into the UK will automatically stand behind its belief systems and customes, expecially where concience dictates that joining an armed struggle is perceived as the correct action///
So I'm saying, and you'll have to forgive the simple analogy from a simple man, why put the fox in the coop in the first place. In fact how dare successive governments expose the British public to unnecessary danger (while, no doubt, living in rural idylls with 24 hour guards).
Svejk - thank you for the explanation.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the government was wrong to take refugees on the basis that there was always a possibility that theire children would turn out to be among those who see fighting abroad as a duty they must fulfil.
If that is the logic you are using, then were on earth do you stop?
Shall we stop all immigration on that basis that any individual may have a family who reject the UK systems and freedoms?
Why stop there? let's stop every thief, burglar, mugger, speeding driver, anti-social hooligan etc. etc. from breeding on the same basis - their offspring may be just the same.
You have to see that this is not the action of a civlised society.
You cannot pre-empt behaviour of anyone anywhere at any time based on ethnicity and religion - that would be a Nazi state, and it has no place in the workings of a civilised society.
We can only try and educate people into living peacefully with others. It won't always work, it never ever has, but it is the best system we have.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the government was wrong to take refugees on the basis that there was always a possibility that theire children would turn out to be among those who see fighting abroad as a duty they must fulfil.
If that is the logic you are using, then were on earth do you stop?
Shall we stop all immigration on that basis that any individual may have a family who reject the UK systems and freedoms?
Why stop there? let's stop every thief, burglar, mugger, speeding driver, anti-social hooligan etc. etc. from breeding on the same basis - their offspring may be just the same.
You have to see that this is not the action of a civlised society.
You cannot pre-empt behaviour of anyone anywhere at any time based on ethnicity and religion - that would be a Nazi state, and it has no place in the workings of a civilised society.
We can only try and educate people into living peacefully with others. It won't always work, it never ever has, but it is the best system we have.
-- answer removed --
retrocop - they are somali,
and not Asian.
Part of the issue is that the social control agencies ( that would be the cops and social services etc ) dont know their Somalis from their Orissans.
so how on earth can they be expected to get a grip on the issue ?
The parents I think are as surprised as Christian parents are when their dear children embrace fundamentalist sects....
and AOG - //Also gets one to ask yet again, how can one tell a moderate Muslim from an extremist one?//
you can start off by doing a truly truly crap course called 'Prevent' that everyone in the NHS and civil service are being subjected to. The only problem is that Prevent is written by Anglos and they get their facts wrong - like you know really wrong as in naming as dangerous terrorists those who were found instead innocent and compensated for knowingly false accusations.....after they had been deported of course.
No wonder it doesnt work
and not Asian.
Part of the issue is that the social control agencies ( that would be the cops and social services etc ) dont know their Somalis from their Orissans.
so how on earth can they be expected to get a grip on the issue ?
The parents I think are as surprised as Christian parents are when their dear children embrace fundamentalist sects....
and AOG - //Also gets one to ask yet again, how can one tell a moderate Muslim from an extremist one?//
you can start off by doing a truly truly crap course called 'Prevent' that everyone in the NHS and civil service are being subjected to. The only problem is that Prevent is written by Anglos and they get their facts wrong - like you know really wrong as in naming as dangerous terrorists those who were found instead innocent and compensated for knowingly false accusations.....after they had been deported of course.
No wonder it doesnt work
^ ^ ^
Hey look what I found when I went and looked...
//
// Senator Rand Paul said the US government has been arming ISIS militants in Syria and funding its allies.
US Republican Senator Rand Paul has accused the US government of arming the terrorist group Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS).
Paul has told NBC News’s ‘Meet the Press’ that the US government has been funding ISIS's allies and supporting the terrorist group in Syria.
“They're emboldened because we've been supporting them … It could be Assad [could have] wiped these people out months ago,” the Kentucky senator said. //
http://
It is from the Iranian propaganda channel, but they do seem to be repirting a US Senator.
Hey look what I found when I went and looked...
//
// Senator Rand Paul said the US government has been arming ISIS militants in Syria and funding its allies.
US Republican Senator Rand Paul has accused the US government of arming the terrorist group Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS).
Paul has told NBC News’s ‘Meet the Press’ that the US government has been funding ISIS's allies and supporting the terrorist group in Syria.
“They're emboldened because we've been supporting them … It could be Assad [could have] wiped these people out months ago,” the Kentucky senator said. //
http://
It is from the Iranian propaganda channel, but they do seem to be repirting a US Senator.
Yes, just as in the context of WWII, we would have barred immigrants from axis countries, since we are currently on a war footing (of sorts), perhaps we should do likewise, now?
The difficulty being that a Jewish German would have this fact all over their ID documents and was fleeing -systematised- persecution, whereas 'moderate Muslim' is only a state of mind and we only have their word for it that they are fleeing from an -individualised- form of persecution (eg one of the family was identified by the regime as a dissident).
Two brides could be worth half a dozen more fighters in time for the 2030s. Hitler was terribly keen on large families, too. So is Putin.
The difficulty being that a Jewish German would have this fact all over their ID documents and was fleeing -systematised- persecution, whereas 'moderate Muslim' is only a state of mind and we only have their word for it that they are fleeing from an -individualised- form of persecution (eg one of the family was identified by the regime as a dissident).
Two brides could be worth half a dozen more fighters in time for the 2030s. Hitler was terribly keen on large families, too. So is Putin.
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