Malaysia Airliner Crashes In East Ukraine

[ummmm]

Coincidence?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

[EcclesCake]

Indeed, 237sj.

[ichkeria]

Russian rebel leader and GRI operative Igor Ghirkin had already boasted of downing a Ukrainian aircraft in that very area. If it turns out that the plane was shot down by Ghirkin's Putin-financed and armed terrorists then Uncle Vlad is going to have some explaining to do to the Malaysian people. And others. And maybe people will wake up to the fact that Russia is a major exporter of terrorism.
Of course it maybe was just an accident.

[ChillDoubt]

Sadly it looks like a case of high tech SAM weaponry in the hands of low tech personnel.

Questions too are being asked about the wisdom of commercial airliners flying through such airspace.

My condolences DTC, hope there's been a mistake somewhere and it's not the one your friend is on.

RIP to all on board.

[Gromit]

// I don't think you can realistically compare 1988 to 2014. //

1988
A civilian airliner was flying over an area of conflict and was attacked from the ground by missile. The people on the ground mistook the civilan airliner for an enemy jet and fire on it by mistake. The airline crashed killing everyone on board.

How is that not comparable to todays incident?

[Peter Pedant]

coincidence of aircraft and rocket ?
yeah I think so

the only thing is ... who ?

The conversation of Putin and Obama was pre-planned and so nothing can be concluded from that alone - altho I cant believe that there is not a signature or even a radio transmission ....

[Gromit]

// Sadly it looks like a case of high tech SAM weaponry in the hands of low tech personnel. //

It looks like this was the work of the Ukrainian army. They have had the Buk launchers for many years and will have been fully trained. However, peace time practice does not ready you for a real conflict. Under the stress land immediacy of real life, mistakes and poor decision happen. Ask the captain of the USS Vincennes, highly trained but made a monumental error.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[Eve]

Sky News just said there was a post by a separatist just after the crash speaking of them shooting down a plane in a nearby area but saying it was something like a utility plane, so wondering if they mistook the aircraft, not realising it was a civilian airliner.

Are military aircraft likely to be flying aircraft anywhere near a comparable size, height etc... to civilian aircraft, especially in certain airspaces?

It's just awful.

[sandyRoe]

Another example of the sad consequences of trigger happy military

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

[Peter Pedant]

/// The other Malaysian plane which crashed near Australia was well out of reach of Ukrainian missiles.///

blimey this guy must have done Geog at uni.

1988 USS vincennes - can anyone comment on the stories at the time that the Iranians were playing 'spot the airplane' at the time by sending up military aircraft at the same time as timed take-offs of commercial aircraft ?

[EcclesCake]

Technology has come on leaps and bounds since 1988.......

[Peter Pedant]

I agree eve I think I heard them early in the day of boasting about downing an aircraft

before:

commerical airliner, definitely definitely not us.....

[royfromaus]

It looks like this was the work of the Ukrainian army.


Why?

[ChillDoubt]

Technology has come on leaps and bounds since 1988.......
----------------------
The problem is that SAM's identify heat signatures, they can't differentiate between military and civil aircraft.

[Gromit]

// The International Court of Justice case relating to the Airbus attack, "the Aerial Incident of July 3, 1988, (Islamic Republic of Iran v. United States of America)", was dropped 22 February 1996 following settlement and reparations by the United States. //

Mea Cupla.

[EcclesCake]

There is a tad more to targeting than just a heat signature as I am sure you well know Chilldoubt.

[mikey4444]

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde here ::::

"To lose one airliner may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness "

[Gromit]

// It looks like this was the work of the Ukrainian army. Why? //

An Associated Press photographer took a shot of a Buk launcher being moved by Ukrainian government troops near Slovyansk about two weeks ago.

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2697358.1404556094!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_300/ukraine.jpg

[ChillDoubt]

Not really EcclesCake, the missile just goes to what it's pointed at. Once target acquisition is made there's not much else to it.

Again as I type, the decision to fly though this airspace is being severely scrutinised on Sky News.

[ichkeria]

The Donetsk so-called People's republic have Sa-17 surface to air missiles.
Of course the Ukraine army have anti-aircraft missiles but why on earth would they use them? Who would they be firing at? The only combat aircraft in the region are Ukrainian ones.

[EcclesCake]

So there is no Int gathered prior to an attack on a target?