Baroness Warsi Resigns

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28656874.

The first female Muslim Cabinet member resigns over daves Gaza policy. Brave woman as far as I am concerned. Lets hope more people protest and this government starts to pull its finger out over the Israeli policy of killing 1000's of innocent Gaza citizens.

Netanyahu has long passed the point of avenging the deaths of the three Israeli schoolboys. Enough already.

[Kromovaracun]

"Hamas punch bag with no right to defend itself."

A punchbag? Israel has an extensive missile defence network and the rockets used by Hamas are overwhelmingly ineffective.

[retrocop]

Ask yourself WHY Israel has the need for an extensive missile defence system and that will tell why the rockets are largely ineffective.Without that system 3000 rockets successfully exploding in Israel WILL,I suggest,cause an enormous amount of casualties

[Gromit]

// And where is the voice in Gaza of opposition to Hamas? //

Hamas fairly won free elections in Gaza but Israel did not recognise the fact. Fatah won the elections in the West Bank and Israel recognised that Government. So the Palestinians became 2 States, one in Gaza supporting Hamas, one in the West Bank supporting Fatah. That suited the israelis, the opposition divided and weaken.

It is no coincidence that just a few weeks after the two Palestinian States unified in April, that war returned. The murder of 3 teenagers was blamed on Hamas, but Hamas denyed involvement. It was used as a reason to retaliated anyway resulting in 1000+ civilian deaths.

[ludwig]

There's no justification for what either side is doing. They've both got the blood of innocent non-combatants on their hands.

Hamas continues its pointless rocket firing, knowing full well Israel will respond with ruthless and callous disregard for innocent casualties, and Israel is only too happy to respond as expected.

Basically neither side gives a 5h1t about how many Palestinian children are blown to bits. Hamas probably sees them as acceptable collateral damage to further their anti-israeli propaganda war, and Israel, well it just doesn't give a 5h1t. It looks like they consider the only good Palestinian to be a dead one.

I'm surprised so many people seem to see it as black and white. Israel=good, Hamas=bad or Hamas=good, Israel=bad.

[Booldawg]

There seems to be no right and wrong in the recent events (and not so recent) surrounding this conflict. There is only wrong.

I find people who are 'taking sides' tend to be attempting to satisfy a political allegiance that stretches far beyond the confines of Palestine or Israel.

[Svejk]

I thought that, in the fashion of all fascist islamists, hamas expelled any fatah authority members creating a one party state. Don't quite get democracy, the old arabs, do they?

[Gromit]

Retrocop,

// Without that system 3000 rockets successfully exploding in Israel WILL, I suggest, cause an enormous amount of casualties //

From 2000-12, before Iron Dome was installed, 10,000 missiles were launched at Isreal. They resulted in 21 dead. Of course, that is 21 too many, be hardly an enormous amount.

[mikey4444]

Hamas certainly does have a choice. They can decide to give in and let Israel keep all the Palestinians as virtual prisoners, as it has done since the late 1940's. And if the Palestinians do decide to fight back, Israel can fire missiles from its warships anchored of the coast of Palestine, the same ones that have been blockading Palestine for years.

I think you are right...the Palestinians should just surrender and let Israel do what they want......much easier in the end.

[retrocop]

Do you suggest Israel allow indiscriminately fired rockets to fall in Israel and explode just to see what statistics show how many casualties could or could not be caused.If you lived in Coventry or London during the blitz you wouldn't be bleating about disproportionate retaliation by the RAF and USAAF on Berlin,Cologne,Dresden etc.The Germans called it Terror Bombing when they got it back in plane loads because as you said earlier it causes terror amongst civilians.It also causes casualties if rockets are allowed to explode.

[retrocop]

I think you are partly right mikey.I think Hamas should realise that they never will bomb Israel into submission and to continue to do so causes unnecessary death to their electorate.It was stupid in the extreme to even try to tug the tail of the tiger as anyone with a mite of common sense would know.Just behave and you won't get punished.

[retrocop]

According to a BBC news report the IDF have pulled out of Gaza strip and redeployed outside Palestine in defensive positions.The IDF said it had achieved it's object which was to destroy all tunnels,and destroyed 3000 rockets on the ground in Gaza as well as killing 900 Hamas terrorists.During this current conflict 3000 rockets were fired into Israel.There is now another ceasefire.I pray it holds but if I was a betting man I know who I would bet on to break it first and that would be a truly sad bet to make.

[youngmafbog]

The UK must remain as neutral to both sides as possible. The noly way of finding a solution is through diplomacy. If you take sides then you will never be able to help achieve this.

We should however ensure the weapons we sell are not being used on civilian targets.

[retrocop]

Gromit
Re your 1219 post the IDF have reported since their withdrawal from the Gaza strip during this current ceasefire that 3300 rockets were fired into Israel during THIS CURRENT conflict.My arithmetic isn't that flawed is it.3000 rockets were destroyed by the IDF on the ground in Gaza and it is reckoned that Hamas still have another 3000 available

[mikey4444]

Retro ( 12:37 ) "Just behave and you won't get punished" ...If only it was that easy !

Even if the Palestinians were to cross their hearts and promise to be good boys and girls, they would still live in the most over-crowded and poorest areas in the world, with a powerful, fully armed neighbour who won't let them enjoy the usual privileges that any other country might expect to have. They would still be blockaded and bullied.

All this is very sad and I have no idea what the solution is. I just know that any time Israel wants, it can kill 1000's of entirely innocent Palestinians, along with foreign aid workers, and UN people, and suffer just a few dozen casualties of its own. The Israelis will always win, especially as the rest of the world sits on it hands, watching. They can commit war crimes and still get off scot-free.

[Gromit]

Retrocop

Are you seriously comparing 43,000 civilians killed, half of them in London, had been killed by bombing and more than a million houses destroyed or damaged in London alone i an 18 month period with 28 deaths over 14 years?

Seriously?

[retrocop]

Well if I was a Palestinian I think I would rather up stumps and take my family to another Arab/Muslim country to live.That's strange I don't see Saudi,Egypt or Kuwait et al throwing their arms open to the Palestinians and welcoming them into their safe havens.I wonder why that could be.They have plenty of room.Could it be they think the Palestinians and their elected leaders are an embarassing nuisance who invite a whole load of pain on themselves and would'nt want them anywhere near them.Strange how the Arab league don't show more support to their arab brothers is'nt it or maybe not so strange.

[jackthehat]

Educate yourself, Retrocop;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/31/gaza-borders_n_5630811.html

[Gromit]

Retrocop,

The figures for missile attacks are collated month. In July there were 2,874 missiles launched, mostly in the 3 weeks after the start of Operation 'Protective Edge' began. There are no figure for August, but in July it was averaging about 100 missiles a day.

// 3000 rockets were destroyed by the IDF on the ground in Gaza and it is reckoned that Hamas still have another 3000 available //

That comes from the IDF and is completely unverifiable. I doubt even the IDF does not know how many weapons it has really destroyed. Most of the missiles are manufactured locally. They are not laying around for months before they are launched, they are out of the workshop and heading towards Israel within hours. Israel may have reduced or stop the capacity to manufacture the missiles, but I would guess that is wishful thinking. Missile attacks have increased not decreased during the present conflict.

[mikey4444]

As you say, jackthehat, prisoners in their own country.