Any Sympathy For These Guys?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754241/Held-IS-five-jihadi-Brits-want-home-Wantaway-fighters-stripped-weapons-marched-punishment-centre.html

[boxtops]

Yes, it's one theory, obiter - but this article also refutes the statement about virgins/raisins being only for marytrs, it suggests they're for all Muslims who die http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5

[DaisyNonna]

Raisins? I suppose being a fruitarian is preferable to being a sex maniac.
What do female martyrs get?

[Obiter]

More to the point, what do the gay ones get? (There must be some!)

[DaisyNonna]

Do the virgins/raisins have to be Muslim?

[naomi24]

Andy, //They are Muslims first Naomi…//

I am very well aware of that, but that is their own personal perception, which shouldn’t influence our perception of them. They are traitors.

sandyRoe, //How are they traitors? They went to fight against the despotic Assad regime.//

They were well aware when they went to fight with Isil that they were supporting an anti-western, anti-British organisation. The fact that it came as a surprise to them that they were killing other Muslims says much about the hateful propaganda they’ve been fed and their own ignorance of the organisation they joined.

[bazwillrun]

"72 raisins aren't worth dying for"

only 72 !?....thats peanuts , not worth it !

[sandyRoe]

Were they really well aware that they were supporting an anti western, anti-British group? Wasn't there talk not long ago of arming anti Assad forces? At that time a volunteer travelling to take up arms might have thought they were doing something noble, risking their life so that undemocratic tyranny might end.

[douglas9401]

I'm confused. Why doesn't Allah end the undemocratic tyranny instead of relying on those with a predilection for child abuse, the abuse of women and a thirst for the blood of those too weak to fight back (but often, not those willing to stand and fight)?

[sandyRoe]

God moves in a mysterious way
His wonders to perform

[douglas9401]

People doing a moonlight flit move in mysterious ways, Sandy.
Man-made supernatural beings just have it all ways according to what their fans need at a particular moment.

[andy-hughes]

naomi24 - "Andy, //They are Muslims first Naomi…//

I am very well aware of that, but that is their own personal perception, which shouldn’t influence our perception of them. They are traitors."

But surely an individual's perception of themselves will always take precident over other people's perception of them - and that is the issue here.

We can call them traitors, but in their eyes they are obviously not.

Of such disparate views are wars made and perpetuated.

[naomi24]

andy, //But surely an individual's perception of themselves will always take precident over other people's perception of them //

To themselves, perhaps, but their own perceptions of themselves cannot be allowed to take precedence over the nation's security - nor over the law of the land.

[ChillDoubt]

God moves in a mysterious way
His wonders to perform
----------------
Certainly does. This guy sums it up, from 10 minutes in until the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCJRPwVjca0

[andy-hughes]

naomi24 - "andy, //But surely an individual's perception of themselves will always take precident over other people's perception of them //

To themselves, perhaps, but their own perceptions of themselves cannot be allowed to take precedence over the nation's security - nor over the law of the land."

That sounds awfully like a Nazi philosophy - individual freedom must be curtailed if it appears the threaten the state.

Really?

Who is making those judgement calls?

[Smowball]

None whatsoever!!

[naomi24]

Andy, //That sounds awfully like a Nazi philosophy//

That’s an insult and I resent it. The freedom to express oneself as an individual does not extend to the right of the individual to allow his philosophy to impact negatively upon the security of this country, nor upon the well-being of its law-abiding citizens.

[brionon]

It is,of course´, One 70 year old virgin Innit ?

[janbee]

NO !

[andy-hughes]

naomi24 - "Andy, //That sounds awfully like a Nazi philosophy//

That’s an insult and I resent it. The freedom to express oneself as an individual does not extend to the right of the individual to allow his philosophy to impact negatively upon the security of this country, nor upon the well-being of its law-abiding citizens."

Please accept my apologies for any uninentional offence - i did word my statement carefully to say that is sounds like a Nazi Philosophy - which is not to infer in any way that you support extreme right-wing ideology, merely that your point appeared to appproximate that notion that the state is more important than the individual.

Once again, I did not intend to upset you, and I do hope you will accept my apology.

[naomi24]

Thank you.