A Two Pillar Eu - Would It Work?

[youngmafbog]

http://news.sky.com/story/1356889/two-pillar-eu-offers-pm-hope-on-migration

Personally I cannot see the EU allowing anything like this, plus we could not rtust a future labour Government rules by megalamicas like Blair and Brown again to sell us down the Swanee at the drop of a hat in the future.

So I dont think it is viable. Just Cameron posturing to try and fend of UKIP

[Old_Geezer]

If one pillar reverted to the "Common Market" we were sold, then it might be a goer, but would anyone trust the Euro-elites now anyway ?

And it is worth acknowledging that all political parties sell us down the Swanee, not just your favourite foe.

[janbee]

Labour sold us down the Swanee?? as opposed to the Tories who have sold us down *** creek sans a paddle. They're ALL the same, just all varying degrees of bad.

[Svejk]

UKIP haven't yet.

[janbee]

True, svejk

[Khandro]

It is the borders of the EU which urgently need sealing, immigrants are pouring in by the thousands every day.

[jourdain2]

Very true Khandro.

[New Judge]

Yes certainly the external borders need sealing (in fact they should never have been allowed to become so porous in the first place). The ridiculous Schengen agreement has made matters far worse by allowing free movement of people - even those not entitled to be in Europe at all. Once they are in the EU they are free to go where they wish unhindered and that is why hundreds of thousands make their way from southern Italy to northern France.

However, that is not the entire answer. Many of the problems faced by the UK (pressure on housing, medical facilities, education, etc.) is a result of migration from within the EU. The principle of "free movement" was fine when the union consisted of a dozen relatively prosperous nations where wages and costs were similar. That is not now the case. Many of the later members of the EU have economies, wage and benefit levels far inferior to ours. It is natural that people from say, Poland, will want to migrate here to earn five to ten times the amount they can at home. Unfortunately this distorts the labour market in the UK. Furthermore, many of these arrivals are not net contributors to the UK's economy. Many of them have very low incomes, have to be subsidised by working tax credits, child tax credits and housing benefit and a sizeable chunk of their earnings is sent "home" with no benefit to the UK economy whatsoever. There is nothing in this for the UK - quite the reverse in fact. Add to this that by "sub-contracting" this low-skilled work out to foreigners we still have to keep those already here who will not do such work.

The Prime Minister should be honest with the electorate (and that would make a change). There is no chance whatsoever of there being any meaningful change to the free movement rules. It is one of the most important of the founding principles of the EU, is enshrined in the various Treaties and will require the agreement of all the other 27 nations for any change to be enacted. It is also the second most crowning achievement lauded by the Euromaniacs, exceeded in pride only by the single currency (which demonstrates their distorted sense of achievement).

The only way to stem the flow of people moving from mainland Europe to the UK is for the UK to leave the EU. Nothing else will do.

[BlackadderV]

NJ. A prophet is without honour in his own country. You are repeating the arguments made over 40 years ago against joining the EEC. They are as valid now as they were then. Pity that too few were prepared to listen.

[BlackadderV]

18th June, 1815. Battle of Waterloo. Britain secured its independence for a century and a half.

18th June, 1970. Heath wins general election and promptly surrenders that independence.

[New Judge]

Yes quite so, BA.

All the arguments put against the various measures proposed (and mainly enacted) by the Euromaniacs well well aired, well argued and promptly brushed aside. I remember well the arguments against free movement and they did indeed concentrate on what might happen when the EU expanded to encompass nations where living standards were not quite so high.

I also recall the economic experts who suggested that a single currency might struggle when the excrement hits the air conditioning as it did five or six years ago, especially after the currency's use was extended to the less prosperous nations.

All these arguments were brushed aside. We are now reaping the rewards of those follies.

[BlackadderV]

The classic remark, which I remember from those days, was on the loss of sovereignty. The reply was, "We are not losing our sovereignty, we are merely pooling it". Eh?

[New Judge]

Yes, they thought they could fool all of the people all of the time and for a long time they almost succeeded. Only recently have many people woken up and found they had been conned.

[tonyav]

I remember voting in the 1975 referendum ( only just old enough to vote ), mom told me to never trust the French so I voted against.

[dunnitall]

NJ and it will continue ad infinitum because people are easily conned and smooth-talked by politicians much easier now than ever before IMO. As we know, we should never have gone into the common market but did they listen, did they heck...and as you say, we are reaping (suffering?) through this decision now. We need to get out of the EU post haste but in realistic terms it won't happen. We will continue to reap the cost of this stupid decision for years to come and this country will change beyond all recognition...even more than it has in these last few years. Gawd 'elp us all!

[jourdain2]

NJ Thank you for your clear 'summing-up'. You are quite correct. My parents voted for the 'Common Market' (and that is all that it was supposed to be, or so we were told) because they had been through WW2 (and WW1 as children) and abhorred the thought of another European war. They thought that economic dependency would minimise any threat of future wars. Reluctantly, I went along with this line. So, I'm sorry, I voted for the Common Market. I DID NOT vote for the current EU!

I would like to think that a 2-tier EU would work. It is the only possible answer - otherwise we have to quit, no question, IMO. Yes Ukip has frightened Cameron - he may end up leading us out of the EU.... totally against all his instincts. Fun! (sort of)