11 year old murdered

[MargeB]

Tragic, tragic event, I feel awful for the parents.

During the investigation, the police said they would 'come down very hard' on any perpetrator (not sure when the police are called to come down hard on anyone, but anyway). They seem to be less proud of themselves now that another high profile child killing can be attributed to basic police incompetence (think of Holly and Jessica incident). Isn't it time someone shook up the police service?

During the investigation of the missing boy, while he was probably still alive, the police failed to visit the home of the proposed offender, even though he was on bail for 8 sex offences involving children.

(I know the 'police didn't carry out the act', but if they had acted correctly he may well be alive today).

[january_bug]

Are you talking about the wee Scottish boy?  Has it been proven yet that he died AFTER the public made reports of the man that was sighted?  What if the strange (and I suppose evil) man had killed the boy, THEN he'd been noted missing.  Then faster police work may only have led to the man being found alive, but not the boy.  Then the family would have had the trauma of the trial, and months and months of media intrusion. 

I agree that there are problems with the police force though - but I don't like to be specific, as I just don't know enough on the subject!

[january_bug]

When I say about "he" being noted missing, I do mean the boy.  i.e., one possible chai of events is:

1. Boy goes missing
2. Boy murdered
3. Boy's absence is noted
4. Police make a prompt public appeal
5. Public report sightings of strange man
6. Police find mind.

But the boy could have been dead before anyone had even noticed he'd gone. 

Has anyone seen a report of what forensics etc have said about the timings?

[january_bug]

Ok -so 3 in a row from me!  Now correcting the fact that the police may have found THEIR mind, but I've clearly lost mine!  6 should have been "Police find man".  Sorry MargeB! *blushes*

[georgit79]

MargeB- do we know when exactly he was killed?

This is an awful case, and stuff like this is just happening far too often, tearing apart far too many lives in the process. So, he was a sex offender, was he? When is this issue going to be taken seriously? These people should be outed, named and shamed, and treated like the scum of society they are.

It's questionable whether he should have even been walking free, but surely these people should at least be made known to the public...or permanently tagged, something like that. Maybe then we could start to avoid tragedies like this one.

[MargeB]

I think it was within 24 hours (as most are). The scenario I think would have been perfectly possible: Police aware (or at least have been sent the ******** arrest warrant that was out on him). Boy doesn't turn up to school. Parents notified. Hunt starts. Police check local database of offenders. Police visit them.

I do think the police failed to act properly here, but massive blame also lies with the judge that granted bail: 8 assault and sexual charges on kids over a 7 year period, AND HE GRANTED BAIL. Nice one. Hope he can sleep at nights.

[january_bug]

Hang on a wee minute here!  Her was charged, but not convicted!  He was on bail pending trial wasn't he!!??!

He may well have been guilty, but until that was proved, he was innocent in the eyes of the law. 

People who actually ARE sex offenders, fine, they should be punished.  But we must surely act with some degree of caution and remember the fundamental human rights in this country.  My Dad was a primary school teacher for many years.  He was therefore at high risk of being accused of dodgy behaviour with young children.  I sincerely hope you wouldn't want him hung drawn and quartered if someone had made an accusation.  Only AFTER a trial should these sorts of suggestions be made. 

Please do not let it be said that I am trying to detract from the sadness that the Scottish boy's family must be feeling.  Unlike the parents of Holly and Jessica, I hope that his family can be allowed to mourn in peace and that he too can rest in peace.  It's a tragedy enough that a young child has been murdered.  However, I personally would like to see lessons learned quietly, so that the family concerned may be allowed to grieve in private. 

[Buddy]

I previously posted on this - re the the desire for revenge on the perpetrator.I believe all reason goes out the window.I spoke with my husband last night about this and I personally feel he has taken the soft option and not to coin too much of a popular phrase the family do not have closure.I believe the police had DNA evidence so he was on a hinding to nothing.The reason behind the soft option is

1 - Shipman.2 - West.3- Huntly (attempted).4 Brady - attempted.

Need I go on  - their lives were made a misery - his wont be unlike poor wee Rory.I also feel beels should have rang when he didnt appear in court - prime suspect.

Hindsights great though and it wouldnt have saved the wee boy.I hope leasons can finally be learned from this absolute tragedy.

[libertie]

I was trying to stay out of this one as I lived opposite the school concerned for 26 years and my goddaughter attends it, my granddaughter also lives just half a mile from it and half a mile the other side of her home lived the accused!  The whole community has been totally gutted by this and the police have shown great sensitivity when talking to the local people, lets not forget that they also have families many of whom live in the area!  I know that when something like this happens the tendancy is for people to allocate blame but until all the facts are known it really is'nt helpful!!  Rory Blackhall's body was found on Sunday afternoon 21/08 and Simon Harris was not due to appear in court until the following day.  When he failed to appear a warrant for his arrest was then issued but for whatever reason did not arrive in front of the police until Fri/Sat.  He was not on the sex offenders list because he had only been charged with the offences and had'nt appeared in court yet!!  No doubt the debate will go rumbling on and hopefully something positive will emerge from it.  And while I know that Rory's family will probably never get over this I hope that they can at least learn to live with it!

[january_bug]

Hear hear libertie!  Sorry to hear that you've been so closely effected, but very glad that you piped up in this thread.  It's very interesting (for me at least) to hear from someone in the heart of it, so to speak.  Also, very useful to have an accurate timeline.  As you so rightly implied (I feel), nothing that is said or done now, will bring Rory back, and that needs to be remembered. 

[libertie]

Thanks janbug it really has been the most awful time for family and friends of the wee boy and the whole community just seems a whole lot quieter and sadder!

[metagirl]

what I thought the most shocking part is that the school didn't notify his parents he was missing as soon as his teachers marked him absent. In America, as soon as a kid is marked absent from his first class of the day (regardless of age - younger kids get a phone call from the office whilst older students get an automated message sent home) his parents are notified via a phone call.

The schools need to reconsider their policy. Staff levels don't come into play coz a voice messaging system doesn't require a human being.

[Buddy]

I agree with you libertie - the point I was attempting to make  - not very succinctly was that I would have preffered Harris alive to face up to his alleged heinous acts.Lets not forget the man has potentially left a trail of abject agony for several families albeit it to varying degrees in his wake which they have to live with for the rest of their lives - he doesnt.

I have followed this very closely and I cannot fault the police - the presence of the mounted police at the school in order to reassure the children was so kind and showed compassion for the children who were frightened.

I feel for the whole community of Livingston and indeed anyone who has to face up to this kind of monstrosity. 

[mullein2]

this is a situation that will happen time and time again..until they do something about where they put peadophiles to live..who knows i could have one next door ..no one is sure where they are..perhaps they should build special hostels and make them all live together..i dont have an answer..i just feel desperately sorry for the child and his family..i heard on the news..dont know how true it is but they said its easier to get bail in scotland!!! perhaps laws and courts should be tightend up as they seem to give sentances and bail lightly..they also need tightening up in england as well as scotland..its too easy to blame the police as they have their hands tied regarding these peadophiles..they cant tell people in the neighbourhoods they have a peadophile amongst them as the locals would take the law in their own hands..and then the police would be in trouble as they have to protect them..its not a savoury job..as the police officer may have young children of his own..and yet he may know of a peadophile living next door to familys..its the do gooders that need everyones criticism..not the police..

[kick3m0n]

just to clarify...Rory was not killed until 48 hours after his disappearance, ie saturday lunchtime, which was 24h before his body was discovered.

[Buddy]

A paedophile lives in the cottage behind me.He has served a prison sentence for abuse against young girls.His house backs directly on to a primary school.

He attempted one evening to lure my daughter from her room.By the time she came down and told me he was in my garden at her window trying to get her.I phoned the police but under Scottish law you need more than one witness and their hands were tied.Luckily once I had calmed my daughter down she was able to verify she had seen him in the garden.He made her go to court - he was found guilty and received probation etc.

Guess where he lives now-and who passes my window every night.

I was also a victim - how many paedophiles are out there undetected selecting their next victim.Its not the police who are at fault - the law is an ass and its about time it was changed to allow the police more powers.

That is the reason I feel so personally strongly.

There has been no lessons learnt - I remember the little boy a good few years ago who was abducted when riding his bike and filmed by 3 inhumans while they abused him.His name escapes me now.You would think we would be further forward by now.

Its easy to point the finger but the only guilty party is the murderer.

[MargeB]

Hi,

Nasty story that. It's good and well to have government think tanks and policy changes, but when you make it personal...if someone was do anything to my nephew...outcome wouldn't be pleasant, it's just instinctive.

I'm not sure it's just the paedophile's fault here. There are paedophiles out there, we have to choose how to deal with the situation-I'll be very interested to hear how the judge came to the decision to release him on bail. I'm sure he won't lose his job over this.

[luckyboy]

saw the news tonight and three times the itv reporter came out and said that harris was as good as guilty over little rorys murder, this might well turn out to be true, but as yet no evidence has been put forward to state such a fact and until such evidence comes forward as to his guilt or lack of it, shocking reporting and the usual blame game like this serve no purpose at all...

[louadams6]

I understand what people are saying here that this man hadnt been found guilty and therefore was not registered on any register, but if people like this are so much as charged they should be registered immediately on the sex offenders register and if found not guilty their name then removed. Surely this would be better than these people being allowed to offend again or as in this case even kill. This is a tragic event that should never have happened and im not ashamed to admit has had me in tears. My heart goes out to the family, Im not sure how you could ever come to terms with something like this x

[january_bug]

I'm very wary of getting into a row about this, but I really don't think that people should go on the register just because they are charged.  I fully take on board everyone's comments about paedophiles, and I'm not a "do-gooder" (if that was aimed at me).  I just really strongly believe in innocent until proven guilty.  If it were my Dad, friend, cousin etc standing accused, his life would be ruined if his name went on the register.  Even for an innocent man, mud sticks. 

The proposed system would open the floodgates to people making accusations merely with revenge in mind.  I have already witnessed in court a case where a mother had convinced her daughter that grandpa had sexually abused her.  The child was just a pawn in the game and grandpa had done nothing wrong.  It became clear to the court that the Mum was just trying to score points against her father.  In that case, the child was harmed (by her mother), but at least the grandfather's reputation was damaged, but not destroyed. 

Please don't anyone misunderstand me.  Sex offenses, whether against adults or children are sick and wrong and the people who commit these (legal and moral) crimes should be severely punished before they goa nd rot in hell.  However, for the sake of keeping our society reasonably sane, I'd like to see people PROVEN guilty first.  Otherwise who knows who could have their life ruined, or worse still, taken away by vigilantes who accidnetally found out where the local paedo lives.  That sort of action would just see someone else go to prison for murder, and another family torn apart. 

[MargeB]

I would agree with lou's post. We're not talking about just crimes here, about innocent until proven guilty of an offence. We're talking about the Services having a good indication that someone has paedophilic traits (attach this to the crime or not, its still a trait) and this is a separate issue from rights. Just because the old rights model figures so largely in english law does not mean that the model fits all scenarios.

It's probably figured that the judge's bail call is sufficient. In this case I think people have realized that plenty of judges are idiots and we can't entrust them with making certain judgement calls when society is at risk. What was the idiot thinking?

I have been amusing myself a lot by watching the ITV news, it just goes from bad to terrible. Go to the itv . com website...you can vote for 'best tragedy footage'. **** *** you sensationalist FREAKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dead boy + Dead suspect =probably Guilty Dead Suspect

but there's about 10-15 percent chance it was made to look like suicide by another killer or the accomplice.