ChatterBank2 mins ago
Rise Of The Far Right In Britain
Beware if you see any reference to a new Party called " Britain First" It is in effect a new Far-Right party, formed by ex-Members of the BNP ::
http://
It might look quite cuddly and very patriotic, with its images of the Queen, poppies and suchlike but its the same tired old band of Fascist thugs, for whom Asians are the new Jews. I have warned about the rise of the Far Right on AB before, especially in Europe but these Fascists are marching in Britain, not Berlin. We ignore these racist thugs at our peril.
http://
It might look quite cuddly and very patriotic, with its images of the Queen, poppies and suchlike but its the same tired old band of Fascist thugs, for whom Asians are the new Jews. I have warned about the rise of the Far Right on AB before, especially in Europe but these Fascists are marching in Britain, not Berlin. We ignore these racist thugs at our peril.
Answers
AOG - "Passages taken from the Wikipedia link, can't see anything untoward here. /// In May 2013, following the murder of Lee Rigby, Britain First released a video threatening to place Islamist cleric Anjem Choudary under citizen's arrest if the Metropolitan Police would not arrest him. ///" I see something untoward there - the willingness of an...
10:53 Mon 27th Oct 2014
mikey - "On that I'm afraid we have to agree to disagree Andy ! (10:59)"
Not a problem.
I know that we are aligned on our unwillingness to accept that being a Muslim in ths country means you are responsibile for all the reprehnsible behaviour brought about by extremists, and we can as you say, agree to differ about the results in terms of the rise or perceived rise of the loutish ignorant fearful Far Right.
Not a problem.
I know that we are aligned on our unwillingness to accept that being a Muslim in ths country means you are responsibile for all the reprehnsible behaviour brought about by extremists, and we can as you say, agree to differ about the results in terms of the rise or perceived rise of the loutish ignorant fearful Far Right.
"ichkeria...hopefully your Aunt wasn't taken in, as so many people have about Britain First "
I'd be surprised: on the other hand I don't know much about her politics. You tend to find this sort of group appealing to the disenfranchised, and my aunt is not one of those. At any rate she doesn't have a vote in Brain anyway :-)
I now recall reading an article some time ago about "Britain Fir" and their links to Protestant fundamentalism. You don't have to delve too far into their Facebook page to see the sort of people they are attracting.
I'd say this sort of crude populism is not necessarily all that popular in Britain, a factor that will probably limit the appeal of UKIP also.
I'd be surprised: on the other hand I don't know much about her politics. You tend to find this sort of group appealing to the disenfranchised, and my aunt is not one of those. At any rate she doesn't have a vote in Brain anyway :-)
I now recall reading an article some time ago about "Britain Fir" and their links to Protestant fundamentalism. You don't have to delve too far into their Facebook page to see the sort of people they are attracting.
I'd say this sort of crude populism is not necessarily all that popular in Britain, a factor that will probably limit the appeal of UKIP also.
More seriously, if the far-right is "rising", they're doing a pretty crappy job because they seem to be losing in just about every area of political contest in our society. Every single debate is stacked against them, they lose just about every election they bother to fight, and their demonstrations are seldom attended by more than a handful - usually the same group of yobs who go moving around the country.
I know that our culture's obsession with Hitler has become so pervasive that he's almost some kind of bogeyman, but I don't think there's yet any serious evidence that the far right are a major threat in Britain.
I know that our culture's obsession with Hitler has become so pervasive that he's almost some kind of bogeyman, but I don't think there's yet any serious evidence that the far right are a major threat in Britain.
andy-hughes
/// I see something untoward there - the willingness of an organisation to take the law into their own hands is never desireable. We have a police force to uphold our laws. We may not always agree with what we perceive as a lack of the action we would like, but that does not mean that taking the law into the hands of ad hoc organsiations is ever a good thing. ///
Making a citizens arrest is not against the law.
/// I would be interested to see how many of those 'Christians' got out of bed and attended church on a Sunday, as opposed to adopting the nominal label of 'Christians' because they see it as an opposition to the Muslim faith - the fact that they see one faith 'opposing' another somewhat underlines the fact that they don;'t really understand what faith actually is. ///
What they choose to label themselves makes little difference, they were just putting themselves up in opposition to those denying entrance to anyone non Muslim.
/// Taking a single aspect of a faith and deciding it doesn't chime with Western attitudes is a nonsense. You can disagree with what you perceive (and that is the key point) as disprespect, but you cannot go in mob handed and expect people to simply come round to your point of view because you think their behaviour is inappropriate. ///
When people choose to live in a Western country, they should abide by Western attitudes, and one being the equal treatment of women, then that to me seems the right thing to do.
/// It wasn't 'Muslim grooming ...' it was grooming by a devious nasty section of men who are nominal Muslims - rather in the same way, although of course more seriously, than bullies who march into mosques demanding 'respect' are 'Christians'. ///
Oh so you think it is almost on par for bullies to march into mosques demanding respect for women, than the sexual grooming of young white girls by 'nominal' Muslims do you Andy, well I am sorry but I don't.
/// I see something untoward there - the willingness of an organisation to take the law into their own hands is never desireable. We have a police force to uphold our laws. We may not always agree with what we perceive as a lack of the action we would like, but that does not mean that taking the law into the hands of ad hoc organsiations is ever a good thing. ///
Making a citizens arrest is not against the law.
/// I would be interested to see how many of those 'Christians' got out of bed and attended church on a Sunday, as opposed to adopting the nominal label of 'Christians' because they see it as an opposition to the Muslim faith - the fact that they see one faith 'opposing' another somewhat underlines the fact that they don;'t really understand what faith actually is. ///
What they choose to label themselves makes little difference, they were just putting themselves up in opposition to those denying entrance to anyone non Muslim.
/// Taking a single aspect of a faith and deciding it doesn't chime with Western attitudes is a nonsense. You can disagree with what you perceive (and that is the key point) as disprespect, but you cannot go in mob handed and expect people to simply come round to your point of view because you think their behaviour is inappropriate. ///
When people choose to live in a Western country, they should abide by Western attitudes, and one being the equal treatment of women, then that to me seems the right thing to do.
/// It wasn't 'Muslim grooming ...' it was grooming by a devious nasty section of men who are nominal Muslims - rather in the same way, although of course more seriously, than bullies who march into mosques demanding 'respect' are 'Christians'. ///
Oh so you think it is almost on par for bullies to march into mosques demanding respect for women, than the sexual grooming of young white girls by 'nominal' Muslims do you Andy, well I am sorry but I don't.
Oderlimit...OK...admonishment accepted !
There are plenty of reasons why the Far Right is on the increase all over Europe. Ignorance must play a big part in the rise, but it goes deeper than that. People are always afraid of things that they are unfamiliar with, but with these kind of organisations, they just latch onto whatever they think will make them popular. These people basically don't like anyone who isn't white, Anglo-Saxon and vaguely Christian.
Below is an extract from their own website ::
"Christianity in Britain is under ferocious assault: many Christians now face discrimination and persecution because of their beliefs in many areas such as employment, business, and adoption. We will restore Christianity as the bedrock and foundation of our national life as it has been for the last one thousand years"
Just how many of these Britain First activists attend a regular Church is highly debateable but where one of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, of tolerance and loving your fellow man comes in, is anybodies guess.
I remember Nick Griffin desperately trying to explain what he meant by "British" when he appeared on Question Time. (Britain First is a splinter group of the BNP) The more closely the other Panel Members and the Chair that night questioned him about his definition, the deeper the hole became that he was digging for himself.
There are plenty of reasons why the Far Right is on the increase all over Europe. Ignorance must play a big part in the rise, but it goes deeper than that. People are always afraid of things that they are unfamiliar with, but with these kind of organisations, they just latch onto whatever they think will make them popular. These people basically don't like anyone who isn't white, Anglo-Saxon and vaguely Christian.
Below is an extract from their own website ::
"Christianity in Britain is under ferocious assault: many Christians now face discrimination and persecution because of their beliefs in many areas such as employment, business, and adoption. We will restore Christianity as the bedrock and foundation of our national life as it has been for the last one thousand years"
Just how many of these Britain First activists attend a regular Church is highly debateable but where one of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, of tolerance and loving your fellow man comes in, is anybodies guess.
I remember Nick Griffin desperately trying to explain what he meant by "British" when he appeared on Question Time. (Britain First is a splinter group of the BNP) The more closely the other Panel Members and the Chair that night questioned him about his definition, the deeper the hole became that he was digging for himself.
mikey4444
/// I am tolerant Orderlimit, but my tolerance doesn't extend to blaming Muslims for every ill that has befallen Britain. ///
You are far from being tolerant, since you show no tolerance to anyone who opposes your own particular agenda.
And who blames Muslims for every ill that has befallen Britain, Muslims must learn to join the queue which is headed by previous Labour Governments.
/// It can't be right any more that all Brits are racist thugs because a few like to march up and down using Nazi salutes. ///
There you go again with your over sensationalistic language, I have not see anyone marching up and down using the Nazi Salute, not recently anyway.
/// I am tolerant Orderlimit, but my tolerance doesn't extend to blaming Muslims for every ill that has befallen Britain. ///
You are far from being tolerant, since you show no tolerance to anyone who opposes your own particular agenda.
And who blames Muslims for every ill that has befallen Britain, Muslims must learn to join the queue which is headed by previous Labour Governments.
/// It can't be right any more that all Brits are racist thugs because a few like to march up and down using Nazi salutes. ///
There you go again with your over sensationalistic language, I have not see anyone marching up and down using the Nazi Salute, not recently anyway.
AOG - "andy-hughes
/// I see something untoward there - the willingness of an organisation to take the law into their own hands is never desireable. We have a police force to uphold our laws. We may not always agree with what we perceive as a lack of the action we would like, but that does not mean that taking the law into the hands of ad hoc organsiations is ever a good thing. ///
Making a citizens arrest is not against the law."
I said it was undesireable, I did not say it was against the law.
"/// I would be interested to see how many of those 'Christians' got out of bed and attended church on a Sunday, as opposed to adopting the nominal label of 'Christians' because they see it as an opposition to the Muslim faith - the fact that they see one faith 'opposing' another somewhat underlines the fact that they don;'t really understand what faith actually is. ///
What they choose to label themselves makes little difference ..."
It absolutely makes a difference - if you set yourself up as a Christian in order to disagree with a perceived aspect of another faith, then you should conduct yourself in a manner appropriate to your (temporary) label.
"... they were just putting themselves up in opposition to those denying entrance to anyone non Muslim."
Who says the mosque denied entraance to anyopne non-Muslim - and what does that have to do with the protestors' nonse about Muslims' respecting women' in order that they (the protesters) would 'respect their Mosque?
There is no rule denying non-Muslims' entry to a mosque, provided that they show proper respect for it as a place of worship - pretty much what the 'Christian' protesters would expect of Muslims entering their church.
/// Taking a single aspect of a faith and deciding it doesn't chime with Western attitudes is a nonsense. You can disagree with what you perceive (and that is the key point) as disprespect, but you cannot go in mob handed and expect people to simply come round to your point of view because you think their behaviour is inappropriate. ///
When people choose to live in a Western country, they should abide by Western attitudes, and one being the equal treatment of women, then that to me seems the right thing to do."
When you can be reasonably sure that the majority of Western men treat Western women with the repsect that you believe is missing from Muslim couples, then you can start to wonder (but not expect) Muslim couples to do the same - but i don't see that day dawning anytime soon - not while we excuse footballers raping young women because they are drunk and 'knew what they were getting into ...'
"/// It wasn't 'Muslim grooming ...' it was grooming by a devious nasty section of men who are nominal Muslims - rather in the same way, although of course more seriously, than bullies who march into mosques demanding 'respect' are 'Christians'. ///
Oh so you think it is almost on par for bullies to march into mosques demanding respect for women, than the sexual grooming of young white girls by 'nominal' Muslims do you Andy, well I am sorry but I don't."
As I have opined before - anyone who starts a post with 'So you think ..." is going to follow that with a post that either misses the point being responded to - or will say something that the post to which they are replying did not say.
In this case - it's the latter.
I made no corelation between bulling tactics by ignorant Westerners, or vile and indefensible behaviours by a group of deviant men who hapen to be of Asian origin - on this occasion - that connection is nowhere in my post - but perhaps just in your imagination.
/// I see something untoward there - the willingness of an organisation to take the law into their own hands is never desireable. We have a police force to uphold our laws. We may not always agree with what we perceive as a lack of the action we would like, but that does not mean that taking the law into the hands of ad hoc organsiations is ever a good thing. ///
Making a citizens arrest is not against the law."
I said it was undesireable, I did not say it was against the law.
"/// I would be interested to see how many of those 'Christians' got out of bed and attended church on a Sunday, as opposed to adopting the nominal label of 'Christians' because they see it as an opposition to the Muslim faith - the fact that they see one faith 'opposing' another somewhat underlines the fact that they don;'t really understand what faith actually is. ///
What they choose to label themselves makes little difference ..."
It absolutely makes a difference - if you set yourself up as a Christian in order to disagree with a perceived aspect of another faith, then you should conduct yourself in a manner appropriate to your (temporary) label.
"... they were just putting themselves up in opposition to those denying entrance to anyone non Muslim."
Who says the mosque denied entraance to anyopne non-Muslim - and what does that have to do with the protestors' nonse about Muslims' respecting women' in order that they (the protesters) would 'respect their Mosque?
There is no rule denying non-Muslims' entry to a mosque, provided that they show proper respect for it as a place of worship - pretty much what the 'Christian' protesters would expect of Muslims entering their church.
/// Taking a single aspect of a faith and deciding it doesn't chime with Western attitudes is a nonsense. You can disagree with what you perceive (and that is the key point) as disprespect, but you cannot go in mob handed and expect people to simply come round to your point of view because you think their behaviour is inappropriate. ///
When people choose to live in a Western country, they should abide by Western attitudes, and one being the equal treatment of women, then that to me seems the right thing to do."
When you can be reasonably sure that the majority of Western men treat Western women with the repsect that you believe is missing from Muslim couples, then you can start to wonder (but not expect) Muslim couples to do the same - but i don't see that day dawning anytime soon - not while we excuse footballers raping young women because they are drunk and 'knew what they were getting into ...'
"/// It wasn't 'Muslim grooming ...' it was grooming by a devious nasty section of men who are nominal Muslims - rather in the same way, although of course more seriously, than bullies who march into mosques demanding 'respect' are 'Christians'. ///
Oh so you think it is almost on par for bullies to march into mosques demanding respect for women, than the sexual grooming of young white girls by 'nominal' Muslims do you Andy, well I am sorry but I don't."
As I have opined before - anyone who starts a post with 'So you think ..." is going to follow that with a post that either misses the point being responded to - or will say something that the post to which they are replying did not say.
In this case - it's the latter.
I made no corelation between bulling tactics by ignorant Westerners, or vile and indefensible behaviours by a group of deviant men who hapen to be of Asian origin - on this occasion - that connection is nowhere in my post - but perhaps just in your imagination.
mikey4444
I have just noticed that you posted an identical thread to this on the 9th October, are they scaring you that much?
http://
I have just noticed that you posted an identical thread to this on the 9th October, are they scaring you that much?
http://
andy-hughes
/// Who says the mosque denied entraance to anyopne non-Muslim - and what does that have to do with the protestors' nonse about Muslims' respecting women' in order that they (the protesters) would 'respect their Mosque? ///
And who said they did, I did not merntion mosques see below:
*** What they choose to label themselves makes little difference, they were just putting themselves up in opposition to those denying entrance to anyone non Muslim. ***
This was in reference to denying entrance to non Muslims, into predominately Muslim areas in Tower hamlets.
/// Who says the mosque denied entraance to anyopne non-Muslim - and what does that have to do with the protestors' nonse about Muslims' respecting women' in order that they (the protesters) would 'respect their Mosque? ///
And who said they did, I did not merntion mosques see below:
*** What they choose to label themselves makes little difference, they were just putting themselves up in opposition to those denying entrance to anyone non Muslim. ***
This was in reference to denying entrance to non Muslims, into predominately Muslim areas in Tower hamlets.
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