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Can Anyone Look Into The Faces Of These Young Lads And Truthfully Say "it Was All Worth It"?
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On reflection - having read the posts that followed mine, I realise that this is a more complex question than the OP suggests.
I don't think it is possible to quantify a loss of human life against a military objective and say 'it wasn't worth it' because that would belittle the sacrifice that was made.
But similarly to say that the military objectives were achieved as designed is also false, because it is impossible to quantify, even broadly for a number o years yet, so one cannot say it 'was worth it' either.
I am often accused of living in an idealised world, but I don't. I simply strive to see a view that does not involve death on a massive scale, because the decisions that lead to that are made by men just like me - they all close their eyes to go to sleep, they all put on their trousers one leg at a time in the morning, so if I can look at a different way, it follows that they can as well - and if enough people do so, on both sides, this colossal waste of life can be avoided.
These men and women remain as dead as they are now - whether it turns out to have been 'worth it' or not.
And that is a tragedy that cannot be forgotten.
I don't think it is possible to quantify a loss of human life against a military objective and say 'it wasn't worth it' because that would belittle the sacrifice that was made.
But similarly to say that the military objectives were achieved as designed is also false, because it is impossible to quantify, even broadly for a number o years yet, so one cannot say it 'was worth it' either.
I am often accused of living in an idealised world, but I don't. I simply strive to see a view that does not involve death on a massive scale, because the decisions that lead to that are made by men just like me - they all close their eyes to go to sleep, they all put on their trousers one leg at a time in the morning, so if I can look at a different way, it follows that they can as well - and if enough people do so, on both sides, this colossal waste of life can be avoided.
These men and women remain as dead as they are now - whether it turns out to have been 'worth it' or not.
And that is a tragedy that cannot be forgotten.
I fail to see how being involved in 13 years years of war, who's enemy was nothing more that some extremist tribesmen has now made the streets of Britain safer?
Afghan has it's own police force and army, why couldn't they have taken on the Taliban, and why after 13 years do they still need us to train them?
If the UK ever has a widespread war on terrorism from within, does anyone believe anyone would send their troops to rid us of them?
Afghan has it's own police force and army, why couldn't they have taken on the Taliban, and why after 13 years do they still need us to train them?
If the UK ever has a widespread war on terrorism from within, does anyone believe anyone would send their troops to rid us of them?
AOG - "I fail to see how being involved in 13 years years of war, who's enemy was nothing more that some extremist tribesmen has now made the streets of Britain safer?"
This argument by successive governments has always been a complete mystery to me.
As I type, I am willing to bet that within five miles of where i sit ( my city has a sizeable Muslim population) there is more than one radicalised young man with hate in his heart planning harm for people somwhere in this country, and the prsecxence, or lack of it, of British troops anywhere in the world - incluidngt here - is going to influence that fact not one iota.
This argument by successive governments has always been a complete mystery to me.
As I type, I am willing to bet that within five miles of where i sit ( my city has a sizeable Muslim population) there is more than one radicalised young man with hate in his heart planning harm for people somwhere in this country, and the prsecxence, or lack of it, of British troops anywhere in the world - incluidngt here - is going to influence that fact not one iota.
The Daily Mirror publishes the names of all those British Forces personnel who tragically lost their lives in the conflict. It also carries a 'piece' by 2 bereaved mothers, one of whom believes her son did not die in vain whilst the other holds the opposite view.
Time will only tell whether the ultimate sacrifice these young people made was worthwhile or not. I sincerely hope it was.
Time will only tell whether the ultimate sacrifice these young people made was worthwhile or not. I sincerely hope it was.
/I fail to see how being involved in 13 years years of war, who's enemy was nothing more that some extremist tribesmen has now made the streets of Britain safer? /
Let's not forget; the real decision maker was the US
After 9/11 they had to be seen to go after OBL who was suspected of being in Afghanistan.
The secondary 'made the streets of Britain safer' justification was the removal of terrorist (AQ) training camps protected by the Taliban. Of course a full blown occupation that turned against us many more tribes people than there were taliban, was not necessary for that objective.
Let's not forget; the real decision maker was the US
After 9/11 they had to be seen to go after OBL who was suspected of being in Afghanistan.
The secondary 'made the streets of Britain safer' justification was the removal of terrorist (AQ) training camps protected by the Taliban. Of course a full blown occupation that turned against us many more tribes people than there were taliban, was not necessary for that objective.
I would let you all ask their comrades in arms who signed on a dotted line to devote themsleves to Britain and it's aims. Each and every one of the signed up in full knowledge of what it could mean, every single one of them did their duty in "furthering" the aims of our country.
Argue all you like about the validity of being in Afghanistan or Iraq or where ever but please never disrespect our armed forces for doing the job they signed up to do. Each of them will acknowledge the danger and that losing your life to protect a comrade is very worthwhile
Was it worth it? was 1914-1918 or 1939-1945 or any of the conflicts we've been involved in over the last 300 years as a United Kingdon worth "it", whatever IT may be.???
"War is not merely an act of policy but a true political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse carried on with other means." - von Clausewitz
Argue all you like about the validity of being in Afghanistan or Iraq or where ever but please never disrespect our armed forces for doing the job they signed up to do. Each of them will acknowledge the danger and that losing your life to protect a comrade is very worthwhile
Was it worth it? was 1914-1918 or 1939-1945 or any of the conflicts we've been involved in over the last 300 years as a United Kingdon worth "it", whatever IT may be.???
"War is not merely an act of policy but a true political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse carried on with other means." - von Clausewitz
We are not sending scared rabbits out there, lots of military personnel feel a need to be in a conflict. As Slapshot says they know the risks.
I don't know if it was worth it because I don't know enough about our national security and intelligence, I guess we have to trust the powers that be.
There is a fair amount of ex military on this site, were are they all and what are their views?
I don't know if it was worth it because I don't know enough about our national security and intelligence, I guess we have to trust the powers that be.
There is a fair amount of ex military on this site, were are they all and what are their views?
tamborine - "Because of our forces you can sit on your plump cushions & tap your keyboard."
I am off to London next weekend - if i die in a terrorist bomb, and the bombmaker was born in Brixton, and has never been out of the country - what value the forces' sacrifice then?
How safe did they make me?
I don't decry the willingness - merely the practicalities of the constantly shifting objectives.
I am off to London next weekend - if i die in a terrorist bomb, and the bombmaker was born in Brixton, and has never been out of the country - what value the forces' sacrifice then?
How safe did they make me?
I don't decry the willingness - merely the practicalities of the constantly shifting objectives.
Tamborine - since i am the one who is always accused of having rose-coloured glasses, I find your perception of our country to be naiive in the extreme.
"You are at liberty to go wherever and any unwanted hinderance is a phone call away to 101, where the law will deal with felons."
The 'unwanted hindrence' to which I made reference is a terrorist bomb, so I may have difficulty dialling 101 when my arms have been blown off!
"You are at liberty to go wherever and any unwanted hinderance is a phone call away to 101, where the law will deal with felons."
The 'unwanted hindrence' to which I made reference is a terrorist bomb, so I may have difficulty dialling 101 when my arms have been blown off!
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