We All Know That These Days One Must Be Most Careful What One Says, But Was There Any Need For Him To Apologise?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tory-mp-michael-fallon-says-claims-immigrants-are-swamping-towns-were-a-little-careless-9820768.html

[Svejk]

Well, now you've got the muesli-munchers fighting amongst themselves, Ludwig. Well done, well done. ;o)

[Zeuhl]

Cheers QM

I concede, the word 'swamp' is probably rooted more in the old German and Norse words for 'spongy ground' more than 'dirty smelly water'.

but i think most people's associations with the word will be of a wet, inhospitable and generally unpleasant place; hence my notion of 'derogatory'
compared with the synonyms you yourself used; 'inundated' and 'overwhelmed'

:-)

[Quizmonster]

Fighting? Nah! We leave that sort of thing to Tory Cabinet v Tory Backbenchers. All we do is have mild disagreements; after all, living entirely on a diet of muesli and spending our lives hugging trees, wringing our hands and knitting yoghurt we just haven't got the energy, mate!

[Zeuhl]

QM

don't forget all the time we have to spend drinking coffee in Islington!

[Quizmonster]

Zeuhl, I've already agreed that swamp, as a noun, may possibly be seen in a derogatory way, but I didn't use it as a noun. I used it accurately as a verb. I'm also none too concerned with "most people's associations" as regards this or any other word. I've never been on an omnibus to Clapham and don't particularly care what passengers on such a conveyance might think about language!
It was good of you to come back with further comment, however, so thank you also for that.
Cheers

[Quizmonster]

Damn! I just knew there was something I'd forgotten.

[Zeuhl]

Can't debate with you any longer QM

I'm way behind with my chattering today.

[Quizmonster]

I myself am teaching a "chattering class" later this evening, Z.

[Svejk]

Are you cycling there?

[ludwig]

// Arbitration rules in favour of Ludwig :-) //

Thanks zeuhl. I knew any objective observer would rule in my favour.
The only thing we disagree on is whether it's derogatory - you say yes, I say no, both arguable, but QM's silly 'derogatory when a Tory says it - but not if it's a Labour man' is clearly laughable.

[Svejk]

^that sounds like the last word on the subject.

[Quizmonster]

Does it? Whatever gave you that idea? Here's what I said was the key question for L, if his case was to be in any way valid...

"Can you name any town in Britain where the immigrant population is very considerably greater than the native one?"

Perhaps you didn't notice, but he has not answered it. I know why, of course, and already said so; it's because there IS no such town and consequently nowhere "town-sized" that is in danger of being swamped! You see, I use the correct definition of swamped and any notion of 'arbitration' as regards its meaning is invalid.

[ludwig]

QM, when you're in a hole stop digging. You can still leave the thread with your dignity just about intact, but only if you stop banging on about schools and towns.

[Quizmonster]

I'm in no hole and you pose no threat to my dignity, Ludwig, old bean! Are you seriously now contending that schools and towns are the same, especially in terms of size/population? If they're not - and it is perfectly plain that they're not - then there is no reason whatsoever why they should be compared as if they are.
Blunkett was talking about schools and Fallon was talking about towns, simple as that. If a little primary has 100 pupils, only 20 of whom are native English speakers, whilst the remaining 80 speak 20 different languages, then the whole raison d'etre of the place is in jeopardy. There may well be a few schools that are swamped or in danger of becoming so, but no towns whatsoever. Blunkett’s statement was true; Fallon’s was not.
In addition, the word, swamp, used figuratively as a verb has an exact meaning and that's the meaning I applied to it. To verify, click http://www.chambers.co.uk/search.php type swamp into the slot, click on Search or Dictionary depending on which slot you used and read what it says after ‘Verb’.

I’m sure if I did a little research, which I won’t, I could take you to a swamped school; you, on the other hand, could NOT take me to a swamped town.

To repeat, you have no answer to my ‘key’ question...Ho-hum! This time, I will just call a halt.

[ludwig]

Oh gawd 'elp us.

[ludwig]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/28/david-blunkett-praises-michael-fallon-swamped-migrants

// David Blunkett has praised the defence secretary, Michael Fallon, for warning that some communities in the UK are being swamped by migrants from eastern Europe. //

[Quizmonster]

Just once more, then - since you seem so determined to avoid facts at all costs - before this pas de deux of ours is ended.
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this thread and our debate in it has NOT been about what Mr Blunkett is saying NOW; it's been about what he said 12 YEARS ago! And what he said then was about schools, not towns, and these two entities are NOT the same as regards the possibility of being swamped.
Find as many links as you care to, but that plain fact is not going to go away.
However, I AM!

[Svejk]

hurrah.

[Gromit]

Oh, I seem to have wandered into a bit of a quagmire...

[Svejk]

Don't get bogged down in semantics, gromit.