The Bnp...dead In The Water

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30246872

This chap made a valiant effort to defend his racist Party, but ultimately failed. The best thing the BBC ever did was to allow the odious Nick Griffin on to Question Time 5 years ago. Perhaps they should do the same with "Britain First" !

[ChillDoubt]

I share your concern methyl, the UKIP situation too closely parallels Germany in the Thirties for me.
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PMSL. Yeah, the Night of the Long Knives is just around the corner.

SFFS.

[Orderlimit]

The mention of UKIP really does make some people behave in bizarre way. Odd stuff.

[agchristie]

Chill,

Unsheathed
Knives
In
Pockets

[ChillDoubt]

LOL ag,

Unerring
Knowing (can see what's happening to the political landscape)
In
Power

[agchristie]

Very good Chill!

Seriously though, how do we explain the emergence of the Far Right across parts of Europe. We all know of the weaknesses of Lab/Con in this country, but why is this happening elsewhere. Is it a coincidence or is something else happening?

[Zacs-Master]

The emergence of the far right is due to most of the population (of any country) being politically and factually illiterate. The media that they read tells them that immigration is a major problem. They take this at face value because they haven't the nous to investigate further. Along comes a political party which says it will solve this problem. Viola! A perfect storm.

[agchristie]

Zacs,

Here's me thinking it was more profound than that!

[Zacs-Master]

You're looking too deeply. And whilst there has been much criticism of drawing parallels with 1930s Germany, there ARE similarities. It may sound elitist / snobbish but by default, those of us on here who take an interest are thereby excluded from seeing things as the vast majority of the populace do. They like their politics in nice bite sized simplistic portions.

[ChillDoubt]

Well I reasoned that if methyl and Canary could conjure up fantasy scenarios then I'm allowed a little artistic licence of my own.....

To answer your question I can only hazard a guess that the other European countries do not have a UKIP equivalent. To be patriotic and want to see these islands population not watered down any further is deemed racist for some inexplicable reason, yet we don't see hordes of Brits moving to other EU countries in record numbers.
A party that is patriotic, puts its indigenous population first and does not wish to be governed by the EU and its laws governed and set by the ECHR has risen meteorically in 18 months. That suggests to me it is resonating with and addressing the concerns of a very large number of electorate who are fed up of being misled.
Other Europeans don't have a UKIP so have to go to the lowest common denominator to have at least one of their main concerns i.e. Loss of national identity, addressed.
Just my humble opinion though.

[jourdain2]

ag Similar circumstances in France have led to the huge upsurge of the FN - and they really are far-right and very unpleasant indeed. They couldn't stand Sarko so voted in droves for Hollande & he's led them deep into the mire. Soaring unemployment and poverty, especially in the rural areas where people unselfconsciously refer to themselves as 'peasants'. The European elections showed whole communes around here where the vote was 100% FN. They feel they've no-one else to vote for and there's a very deep disillusionment with the usual parties. I'm personally convinced that, barring a huge change, the FN will win the next election.

[Zacs-Master]

Don't demean yourself chill, it's a very well argued opinion and not humble in the slightest. However you have a few holes in your argument:
Of course Brits aren't moving abroad en-masse because we have a growing economy.
Could you define 'indigenous population'?
As for the masses being mis led, they only have to do a little research to see that the political parties and the media can sensationalise and exaggerate the effects of immigration. But they won't cos they'd rather get all her up about it and use it as a cover for their racist views.
Other European countries do have far right parties :
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/26/far-right-europe-election_n_5391873.html

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe

[ChillDoubt]

Of course Brits aren't moving abroad en-masse because we have a growing economy.
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Growing so well that we are subsequently fined by the EU for being successful, despite a crumbling NHS and primary classes doubling in size!
Tell me again about the benefits of mass migration?

No wonder so many want out.......
As for my definition of indigenous population, I'll set the bar at anyone who was born here or can trace their lineage back to relatives who've lived here in say the last 100 years. Fair enough?

[Gromit]

// and want to see these islands population not watered down any further //

Curious phrase.
It could be argued that the fact these islands have been invaded many times, and we are a mongrel race, is what made us strong. The large influx of Jewish refugees from Europe at the end of the 19th century, rather than water us down, were beneficial to the country. Some very successful British people today are decendents from those migrants

[Zacs-Master]

No not fair at all and quite ludicrous. What happens to all the people who can't'? It's a tired old debate but one which is a dead end from your arguments point of view. Nevertheless, I'm prepared to 'walk down the road' with it if only to demonstrate it's basic flaws.

You seemed to have moved the goalposts with regard to your EU argument which is a separate issue to the far right one being discussed.

I'm off out with my namesake now bu as Arnie said..."I'll be back". :-)

[Gromit]

// Growing so well that we are subsequently fined by the EU for being successful //

We were not fined by the EU.

Our payment to the EU is a percentage of our GDP. The percentage did not change. We paid more because our GDP increased. Rather like a successful business pays more tax because it makes more profit.

Unfortunately our economy did not suddenly surge, it was a change in accountancy that on paper increased our GDP.

[Gromit]

// As for my definition of indigenous population, I'll set the bar at anyone who was born here or can trace their lineage back to relatives who've lived here in say the last 100 years. Fair enough? //

Cameron scrapes in as indigenous then, his Jewish Great grandfather arrived in 1871. Sadly not Miliband though. And what of the New York born Mayor of London? (Who is the grandson of a Turk?).

[Svejk]

Zacs-Master /// The emergence of the far right is due to most of the population (of any country) being politically and factually illiterate. The media that they read tells them that immigration is a major problem. They take this at face value because they haven't the nous to investigate further. Along comes a political party which says it will solve this problem. Viola! A perfect storm.///

Viola? Chortle,splutter. Are you saying us dumb folk are being fiddled, oh enlightened one?

[ChillDoubt]

'So neither Cameron nor Milibland were born here??

That's going to come as quite a shock to them....

As for the EU fine, your spin is worse than Osbornes, Gromit.

[Gromit]

Chill,
Please link to EU fine for successful economy. None exists.

[ChillDoubt]

It could be argued that the fact these islands have been invaded many times, and we are a mongrel race, is what made us strong.
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I agree entirely, but it hasn't happened for several centuries and thus we now have an identity, so let's keep it that way and control migration properly.