Parthenon/elgin Marbles

[Maydup]

We had a discussion on here a couple of months ago about how the Marbles should be given back to Greece. Now despite saying they'd never travel, we've lent one to Russia; what ever next?

Surely its time to be gracious and send them home.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30349730

[Prudie]

I agree we should definitely send them back to Greece. I don't think, in light of recent events, that we should be lending one to Russia either, this Art surmounts politics argument doesn't hold true in this case.

[aelmpvw]

must cost a fortune carting them round the world ... let them rest in greece

[whiskeryron]

How about a good clear out, everything Greek to go back to Greece & everything else from distant lands to be sent back ( inc, foreign nationals ).

[Maydup]

It would be a fanatstic gesture to send them back and very timely since there is now a Acropolis Museum in Anthens.

[mikey4444]

There used to be case to be made for keeping the Marbles but no longer. Britain should give them back to Greece without further delay/

[New Judge]

I'm absolutely in full agreement with Mikey (readers please take note!! :-) )

Whilst, in the early 19th Century, there may have been a case to "grant asylum" to the stones to ensure their safety (and that is somewhat debateable) there is no justification for them to remain in the UK now. If they can be packed up and moved to Russia they can be repacked and returned to Greece forthwith.

[Graham-W]

We could make copies and return the originals to Greece. Copies are so good these days. I've seen the original David in the Galleria dell'Accademia, Florence and also the replica outside the Palazzo della Signoria and I couldn't tell the difference ( except for the bird droppings).

[RATTER15]

I wouldn't want them now, they are all broken!!

[Baldric]

According to this we own them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles

///Following a public debate in Parliament[13] and the subsequent exoneration of Elgin, the marbles were purchased by the British government in 1816 and were passed to the British Museum,[14] where they stand now on display in the purpose-built Duveen Gallery.///

[jno]

I think it's time they were given back. Britain wasn't a great steward of them, they nearly wrecked them by overcleaning them last century but managed to hush it up for years. They mean far more to Greek history and culture than to Britain's.

[jno]

Baldric, we bought them from an occupying power. It's a bit like buying art looted by Germany during the war: there's a legal case for saying they owned it, having taken it by force of arms; but there's a moral case, stronger in my view, for saying it was stolen from its true owners.

[Mags22]

What a fuss over A few broken stanes!

[ichkeria]

Yes we should return the marbles to Greece as they were effectively stolen in the first place. The British govt may have purchased them in the 19th Century, but they presumably did not do so from Greece.

Having said that, the Greeks have never formally requested their return: they have used the issue for political posturing, much as Spain does over Gibraltar, although admittedly in their case with more justification.
It is also not true to say that Britain has said they would never be loaned out. It was simply that no one had ever asked. They claim they would lend them to Greece only there is no likelihood they would be returned.
Meanwhile I see no reason why a single statue should not be loaned to the Hermitage. It's pretty high profile, so presumably there is little chance of the Russians stealing it and offering it to a FIFA delegate as a bribe, as happened with other Hermitage artefacts during the World Cup bid

[New Judge]

"...much as Spain does over Gibraltar, although admittedly in their case with more justification. "

As has been said, the Marbles were sold to Britain by an occupying power (the Ottomans). Gibraltar, however, was ceded to Britain by the Kingdom of Castile (a title still held by the current King of Spain) in perpetuity (not until Spain got fed up with the idea) as part of the settlement that was the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713.

To suggest that Spain has a legitimate claim on Gibraltar is rather like saying I have a legitimate claim to the family silver I sold when I was hard up.

[ludwig]

Yes, they should be given back. There may have been some justification for taking them in the first place and holding on to them for a while, but there no longer is.

I wonder if we're worried about setting a precedent which will see all our museums emptied of their artefacts?

[ichkeria]

"To suggest that Spain has a legitimate claim on Gibraltar is rather like saying I have a legitimate claim to the family silver I sold when I was hard up. "

I don't think anyone was suggesting that, least of all me. I was comparing the political posturing of Greece and Spain, while contrasting their respective justification (i.e. Greece has a point, Spain does not) The Greeks have made no serious efforts to have the marbles returned (such as writing to the museum and asking) just as Spain has never made a serious attempt to reclaim Gibraltar

[janbee]

They are not ours. They should be returned to Greece.