Lady Warsi - If There's A Terror Attack In Britain It's The Governments Fault.

[Zacs-Master]

Because they foster a feeling of mistrust and unease through a lack of engagement with the Muslim community. The woman is unbelievable and seems to have put the egg before the chicken.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/24/sayeeda-warsi-muslims-british-values

[anotheoldgit]

/// “British values are Muslim values” and that Britain is a better place because of “its strong Muslim communities”. ///

Can this be true?

[Zacs-Master]

Ha ha. Thanks for the link AOG.
How can it be a better place when Warsi seems to be saying 'if we don't engage more they'll kill us'?

[Zacs-Master]

Actually, AOGs link is slightly different. Here's my source which is more Warsi-centric:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/baroness-warsi-coalition-assault-muslims

[douglas9401]

That'll be her poster photo when she's declared Empress of the Universe.

Vile woman.

[Gromit]

I do not like Warsi, but the words you attribute to her,

// If there is a terror attack in Britain, it is the Government's fault //

She did not say.

The full piece in the Observer is here.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/24/sayeeda-warsi-muslims-british-values

[BlackadderV]

A bitter woman, a minor player in politics who resigned before she was sacked. Who gives a toss about her ramblings?

[Zacs-Master]

I never claimed she did say that. If I had, the second part would be in speech marks (as we used to call them). I intimated, and still believe, that is a summation of her stance.

[Old_Geezer]

Goes on a bit doesn't it.

Whilst the general gist of needing to engage is fine, it is also reasonable not to waste time & resources talking to any group or individual who is believed unlikely to come to any satisfactory agreement, and merely benefit from the publicity of expressing their extreme views.

To find that official contacts in mosques will take offence to a polite letter simply because some groups they approve of are considered too extreme to enter into discourse with; is probably the first issue to solve. There seems to be a need for a spokesperson or group that is both respected by the mosques and government. And I suspect the ball is in the court of those mosque officials looking for a representative.

[anotheoldgit]

gromit that is the same link that I entered.

I initially found the one that Zacs-Master entered but then clicked on "Writing in the Observer".

[Gromit]

Then why attach her name to it?

It is your interpretation of her article, which having read it, does not blame the Government for Islamic terror.

[Gromit]

Sorry AOG, did not see your link when I posted.

[Gromit]

The Letter was co-signed by Lord Tariq Ahmed, who was promoted into the Government at the same time as Warsi was demoted.

I think we can write off the letter as sour grapes.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// Then why attach her name to it? ///

/// It is your interpretation of her article, which having read it, does not blame the Government for Islamic terror. ///

In defence of Zac-Master gromit, it is called "reading between the lines".

[ToraToraTora]

gawd knows whats she's looking at the country is full of EF-OH-JAY bootlicking these barabarians every chance they get. Hard to see how we can engage more unless by "engage" she means join them.

[Brenden]

Think you got it in one TTT

[naomi24]

//they [the government] foster a feeling of mistrust and unease through a lack of engagement with the Muslim community.

A woman with an axe to grind. She's got it the wrong way around.

[Zacs-Master]

As I said Naomi. Egg before chicken.

[New Judge]

Quiter so.

“Muslims values are British values”

Er… I must disagree. Many Muslim values (or, more accurately, foibles and idiosyncrasies) are not British values at all and the UK is by no means improved generally by a hefty Muslim presence.

To begin with, it is no longer the case that for the majority of Britons a religion invades and dominates almost every aspect of their lives. It may have been so four or five centuries ago but things have moved on. Even those who do count themselves as practicing a religion simply accommodate their beliefs around their everyday lives. It is not a British habit, for example, for a large chunk of the male population to disappear to church on Friday afternoon. Most of them are at work (or down the pub at “lunch”) at that time.

We are constantly being told that “the majority of Muslims are peace loving…” etc. This may well be true. But that is a long stretch from the suggestion that British and Muslim values are the same. In particular, I know of no widespread accepted British “values” which (among other things):

- subjugates women and lowers them to the status of child-bearing chattels;
- believes in separation by gender for no good reason;
- practices the mutilation of young women and girls;
- views domestic dogs as the devil incarnate;
- prescribes ritual slaughter as the only acceptable way to obtain meat;
- prohibits the consumption of alcohol;
- allows a man to take up to four “wives”
- prescribes a month of fasting which, in summer months, borders on the seriously dangerous

None of these things can be compatible with British values. When Muslims first began to arrive in the UK in sizeable numbers it should have been made quite clear to them that their customs and practices were not compatible with normal British life. Instead they were told that they could pursue their religion (and in particular the habits that go with it) in an unfettered manner.

There is no reason why the UK government should seek to “engage” (whatever that might mean) with followers of Islam. Their religion can be practised in the comfort of their own homes in a manner which allows them to conduct a normal UK life. No accommodation by government is necessary.

Some of Lady Warsi’s remarks beggar belief:

“…the government fails to accurately gauge sentiment within the British Muslim community, a community that since the Charlie Hebdo murders has been in shock and is fearful.” And “…not a single major government speech has reflected the concerns, worries and, yes, fear within the British Muslim community.”

Oh dear. How sad. Never mind. Their shock and fear is irrelevant compared to that suffered by the people in Paris who were cut down whilst going about their daily business. Lady Warsi goes on to suggest suggests that “We will all fight extremism better if we all feel like we are in the same team.” To feel like you are in the same team when you join a well established club you have to wear the same shirt but most importantly adopt the habits and values of your teammates without expcting them to change theirs. That won’t happen in the UK whilst Muslim womenfolk kept at home, discouraged from speaking English whilst their men insist on going for two hours of prayer every Friday afternoon and whilst newagents in Slough refuse to unconditionally condemn wholesale random slayings in a major European city centre.

[jourdain2]

An excellent analysis NJ. I was just going to say that British values should be Muslim values as far as British Muslims are concerned. As others have said, the Baroness has got it the wrong way around. I'm a bit worried that she might be setting herself up as a figurehead.