Jihadi John

[Gromit]

// MI5 and police came into contact at least a dozen times with the man identified yesterday as Jihadi John before he was able to flee Britain for Syria, it emerged last night.

The security services made a botched attempt to “turn” Mohammed Emwazi after he was first intercepted when they feared he was trying to join a Somali terrorist group six years ago.

However, Emwazi, who grew up in west London and is likely to have been radicalised in this country, rejected the advances and slipped out of the country, despite being on a terrorist watch list, to become one of the world’s most wanted men. The 26-year-old computer programmer has now murdered at least five Western hostages. //

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11438786/MI5-blunders-that-allowed-Jihadi-John-to-slip-the-net.html

We shouldn't really but surprised, but MI5 knew exactly what this man was, and apparently he was able to leave the country despite being on a terrorist watch list.
Do you think letting islamic jihadists leave the country is a deliberate policy?

[-Talbot-]

Do you think letting islamic jihadists leave the country is a deliberate policy?

I don't know but it should be a policy. However there should be no revolving door, when you're out you are out.

[Svejk]

Yes, of course, it's all our fault. We practically put that knife in his hand. I can't speak for everyone but personally I'm ashamed.

[andy-hughes]

I think knowing what someone is, and having the legal power to prevent them from travelling are two different things.

In a standard horse / stable door interface, MI5 and similar are now asking for stronger powers to detain people like this and stop them popping in and out of the country like a Swiss weather house.

[Svejk]

It's our only growth industry. Taking thoroughly decent brown eyed boys, training them up, filling their pure hearts with hatred and then exporting them to the rest of the world.

[ToraToraTora]

If they stopped him you'd be the first bleating oooman rites and spitting out your organic peace porrridge. As andy says you can't just stop people travelling for wehat they may do in the future.

[naomi24]

//Do you think letting islamic jihadists leave the country is a deliberate policy?//

I wish it were. If any of these people want to leave the country we should help them pack their bags and buy them a one way ticket.

[Peter Pedant]

well I think first of all we should apologize to KeyPlus who brought this up ( JJ=MI5) and was universally slagged off by the usual suspects including myself.

and then ask him.... no

I think the hidden agendy is that the snoopers' charter is a Good Thing so let's have it now

this is Bill/Act measure that allow us to listen to all jihadis and hear-jihadis but also allows the local councils to secretly video owners allowing their dogs to crap in unuusal places etc

[Gromit]

Perhaps my assumption as to what 'a terrorist watch list' is different from yours andy-hughes. I imagine they are being watched to prevent them from engaging in terrorist activity. That clearly hasn't happened here with disastrous consequences.
Apparently IS have between 1500 and 2000 British volunteers in their ranks. Last week those 3 girls were allowed to leave the country despite being in contact with a Jihadi Bride in Syria a couple of weeks before. The sheer numbers make me wonder whether we are purposely doing nothing to prevent probable terrorist from leaving.
If that is so, I have mixed feelings. It is good that they are in Syria and not over here. And there is a good probability that they will be killed, but, as in the case of 'John', they are lose to kill westerners.
Should they stay or should they go?

[Peter Pedant]

// If they stopped him you'd be the first bleating oooman rites and spitting out your organic peace porridge. As andy says you can't just stop people travelling for what they may do in the future.// TTT

TTT: do I hear your spoon slapping down into your microwave heated peace porridge and you invoking "HUman Rights" to the clearly long suffering but so far silent Mrs TTT ?

This conversion is as great as the conversion on the road to Damascus ( or should that be Dimshaq ? )

or I have misunderstood you ?

[naomi24]

Peter Pedant, // we should apologize to KeyPlus who brought this up ( JJ=MI5) and was universally slagged off by the usual suspects including myself.//

You’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Keyplus contends that this man and others like him are in the employ of MI5/the CIA, but that’s not what this article is implying. No apology necessary.

[Gromit]

// I wish it were. If any of these people want to leave the country we should help them pack their bags and buy them a one way ticket. //

And then they subsequently hack off a British aid workers head with a knife? Are we not helping to recruit for our enemy by letting them go.

[-Talbot-]

I don't understand the logic of keeping them here. Better for them to be in Syria hating and plotting their next atrocity than in the UK.

[Peter Pedant]

Well Gromit says a watchlist is this .....
and AH says a watch-list is ... that

and I say a watch-list is a social construct made up by the police to enlarge their departments and clock up much needed overtime, and has no other function

at least my definition fits the known fact: lots of money in and nothing of use out.

call me a cynic I know

[sandyRoe]

Is it not better that they commit their vile acts in some far off dusty place rather than in UK cities?

[jno]

is there any evidence that Mr John plans to return to the UK? People seem to be making some rather wild assumptions here.

Anyway, the answer may be that MI5 is to do with internal security; they can stop people indulging in terrorist activity here but may not have power to stop them going abroad and doing as they please. That's just a guess.

[Peter Pedant]

Nigh - thx for your post:

you scream the need for an apology from the mountain tops.....

[-Talbot-]

is there any evidence that Mr John plans to return to the UK? People seem to be making some rather wild assumptions here.


What about the others?
Many do plan on returning.

[ToraToraTora]

if he had not travelled do you think they would not have found someone else to commit the beaheadings etc?

[jno]

this thread was intitially about Jihadi John, so I was confining my remarks to him.

[naomi24]

Peter Pedant, //you scream the need for an apology from the mountain tops..... //

What on earth are you talking about? When do I do that?