Do You Agree That All Universities Campuses Should Become No-Go Zones For All 'extremist' Speakers?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2977282/Cameron-s-fury-Tory-minister-speaks-against-banning-radical-preachers-universities-fiery-Cabinet-showdown.html

[mushroom25]

yeh, let's uphold free speech by banning it.

[Brenden]

Most definitely, it is private grounds so no interferrence with free speech, let them preach in a public place where all and sundry can see and hear their hatred, that will attract a few protesters.

[andy-hughes]

No.

The way to counteract extremism is not to pretend it is not there.

Proper informed debate giving students a chance to make up their own minds is always going to be far more effective than simply telling them that some ideas are too extreme for them to hear.

My reaction, if something was kept from me by the government, would be to go and find out why - people with something to hide are usually up to no good.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// The way to counteract extremism is not to pretend it is not there. ///

Who is pretending that it is not there, we definitely know that it is there, that's the problem.

/// people with something to hide are usually up to no good. ///

Exactly so why can't they do their brainwashing out in public?

[Gromit]

The problem is the definition of 'extremist'.
Many would say the Nigel Farage is an extremist speaker.
Or Geert Wilders, or a whole host of others.

I would ban all religion from schools and all state subsidy of it. However, Universities are attended by adults who must have the choice what they debate and listen too. Banning speakers because they are spouting religious claptrap is not a valid reason. There is already laws about hate speeches and inciting crimes and they are sufficient here.

So students should be allowed to listen to whoever they want to as long as they are within the law.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - ///// The way to counteract extremism is not to pretend it is not there. ///

Who is pretending that it is not there, we definitely know that it is there, that's the problem. //

At the moment, no-one is pretending it is not there, but the proposal to ban extremist speakers will lead directly to the accusations that the government is doing just that.

//people with something to hide are usually up to no good. ///

Exactly so why can't they do their brainwashing out in public? //

Such as speaking on university campuses?

Ideal! The best way to expose these lunatics for what they are, is for their rhetoric to reach as wide an audience as possible - the more people hear their poisonous hateful garbage, the more can denounce them for the twisted hate-mongers that they are.

[bhg481]

The problem with banning religion from schools is that many schools are religion-sponsored and. in the latest survey of primary/junior schools they seem to come out best. Wherem I was brought up there are four primary/junior schools, including one CofE and one Roman Catholic. My wife was brought up in a small village with a United Reformed sponsored school which came out 6th best in the country.

[Svejk]

They invite hate-preachers and ban anti-hate speakers but that's students for you. When you see them on quiz shows you can see how toe-curlingly thick most of them appear to be. Let's just hope they grow out of it.

[andy-hughes]

Svejk - // They invite hate-preachers and ban anti-hate speakers but that's students for you. //

No, that's a small minority of students for you. You cannot bundle an entire section of society together based on the actions of a few who are not representative. If that rule applies, I had better turn myself in at the nearest police station because my 0.5 hair cut makes me look like an EDL supporter!

// When you see them on quiz shows you can see how toe-curlingly thick most of them apear to be.//

I suggest you are watching the wrong quiz shows. Check out the semis of University Challenge which are running at the moment - see how many 'toe-curlingly thick students you can find on there.

[Svejk]

I almost said 'with the exception of UC', but I thought using the words 'most' & 'appear' covered such anomalies. Not that UC is totally free of howlers.

[anotheoldgit]

/// At the moment, no-one is pretending it is not there, but the proposal to ban extremist speakers will lead directly to the accusations that the government is doing just that. ///

I don't quite follow you, the government want to bring in these measures because it has been proven that it is there, the only ones that are pretending it is not there, are those who oppose the governments plans to enforce this ban.

/// Such as speaking on university campuses? ///

I think that the word 'campus' wasn't just talking about the grounds of the university, but inside the buildings as well.

/// Ideal! The best way to expose these lunatics for what they are, is for their rhetoric to reach as wide an audience as possible - ///

Even if they did their preaching outdoors (in the grounds of the university), it wouldn't reach as wide an audience as possible, it would only attract an audience of susceptible students, whereas if they did their preaching in public, the police could make sure that they didn't break any laws.

[Svejk]

Another thing is when people use expressions like that's kids/men/women for you. It's just that, an expression. One isn't saying all or even a majority of the group do X or Y. It's ridiculous the thing you get picked up on around here. It's this lack of understanding that probably leads to some of my and other people's perfectly reasonable posts getting deleted.

[anotheoldgit]

/// No, that's a small minority of students for you. You cannot bundle an entire section of society together based on the actions of a few who are not representative. ///

Obviously you have never witnessed any student's rallies?

/// If that rule applies, I had better turn myself in at the nearest police station because my 0.5 hair cut makes me look like an EDL supporter! ///

Much as some would wish it to be, when has just being an EDL supporter been against the law?

[ludwig]

// It's this lack of understanding that probably leads to some of my and other people's perfectly reasonable posts getting deleted. //

..ironic that, considering we're all in favour of free speech.

[ludwig]

They should be monitored and arrested if they break the law, but banning them from speaking is impractical.

[DTCwordfan]

Agree with ludwig - part of the trick is to ensure that the 'other side' is presented and well-presented at that, let the 'student' make his or her well-informed decisions, that's what Uni is about to some extent.

[Prudie]

On balance yes I think they should from campuses specifically. Accepting it's only a small minority who could be drawn into extremist views, if they are of that leaning they can go and listen elsewhere but from memory of student life it's a time when lots want to join anything anti-establishment and lots then grow out of it. Uni students are particularly vulnerable to new and radical ideas that they haven't yet come across in school life. They still require a certain degree of protection. That's my view anyway (and I'm talking your standard straight from school entry).

[youngmafbog]

I'm with Gromit on this one.

Once you start down the slippery road of banning speakers that stay within the law then you open a whole can of worms.

I definitely support the idea of removing all religion from schools and publicly funded places though, so this would include Universities.

On the other hand though what better place for MI* to go looking for subversives !

[Peter Pedant]

absolutely ! but tell me why do you of all people AOG think Nigel Farage should be banned from schools and universities

[jourdain2]

This is a very difficult one for me. Only by allowing freedom of speech can ideas be heard. Yet preachers of hate can operate under this aegis. Perhaps a compromise could be reached by allowing all speakers, but with published caveats explaining that their views are extreme and with monitoring of the lectures? I've just read what I've written and it seems weak. There needs to be a 'cut-off' point perhaps, regarding cultural issues.